Well, I've gone and done it....

[treetrimmer]

Hi Spec, if you're using a tuned 4.6 in anger it probably won't last too long behind an HP22 (unless its a 4.2 spec box). You've got a couple of options when it comes to take up the extra length of the new box. You could move the engine (impossible in my case as its quite far forward) or you can redrill the mounts to accept the rubbers 15mm further forward (pushing the box backwards). I did the latter. The front propshaft now has a spacer between the output flange of the t.box and the propshaft. The rear propshaft was custom made by the propshaft clinic (awesome service)

Is it possible to upgrade the HP 22 to withstand the torque of the 2.8 for occasional towing and moderate offroading with 33ish tires? Also what is the optimum operating RPM range for the 2.8?

Thanks for the answer on the axles. I too want to upgrade mine but wanted to make sure the stock axle housings were up to it. I can't see owning a Rover if I have to completely replace the drive train just to convert to diesel. If all this is going to work, I am going to rebuild and upgrade all drive components when I put the 2.8 in. This post has been a wealth of information!

Thanks,

Tim

[orange rover]

I too want to upgrade mine but wanted to make sure the stock axle housings were up to it.Tim

the stock axle housing can take heavy offroading with 35" tires, its the internals you should be worried about. stock diffs will not last long with 33" tires....

[FridgeFreezer]

http://www.nav-international.com.br/Motore...oma=2&Grafico=1

(Aparrently 1 CV = 0.9863201652997627 HP)

Just for comparison:

[Turbocharger]

Fridge- I think we're now safely off topic but do you have such diagrams for a 300Tdi, bench tested flywheel numbers or rolling road?

[will_warne]

Is it possible to upgrade the HP 22 to withstand the torque of the 2.8 for occasional towing and moderate offroading with 33ish tires? Also what is the optimum operating RPM range for the 2.8?

Thanks for the answer on the axles. I too want to upgrade mine but wanted to make sure the stock axle housings were up to it. I can't see owning a Rover if I have to completely replace the drive train just to convert to diesel. If all this is going to work, I am going to rebuild and upgrade all drive components when I put the 2.8 in. This post has been a wealth of information!

Thanks,

Tim

Tim, if you leave the 2.8 in standard tune you'll be fine; the design limit of the HP22 is 380Nm of torque (just under the peak output of the 2.8). However, make sure you get the box rebuilt as its unlikely a second hand box will be terribly happy running on the limit. Also, Ashcrofts do a mod to stop you flipping the one way valves, this is a big plus. The one thing you will need to watch is the gearbox temperature so I'd strogly reccomend a Laminova cooler, that way there's no oil cooler to block up. The important thing with an autobox is keeping the temperature down; they don't last long when they get too hot!

JU, you can see why I want to tune my engine; that should flatten the torque curve a bit as well as moving the figures up a bit.

[FridgeFreezer]

TC, just for you:

I know it's called an HS2.5 but it really is the 300TDi:

http://www.nav-international.com.br/Motore...oma=2&Grafico=1

[will_warne]

looking at the 2 dyno readings you can appreciate how much more torquey the 2.8 is than the 300: its got basicly the same torque at idle as the 300 has at peak

[Turbocharger]

its got basicly the same torque at idle as the 300 has at peak

S'funny - when I drove it, yours smoked more at idle than mine smokes at peak too

[will_warne]

Yeah, and I still can't work out how the hell you did that!

P.S. Fridge it had nothing to do with him putting his foot down, I know you too well

[white90]

using This

2.8TGV -276lb/ft max torque

99kw-133hp

2.5TDI - 209lb/ft max torque

85kw-113hp

a noticeable amount of extra Torque but not in horse power

[Lara]

Here's what happens witha 2.8 TD5

God I hate people like me

Lara.

1kw = 1.36 ps

1lb/ft = 1.33 NM

Orange = Torque

Red = Power on Engine

Blue = Power at wheels

Green = Power loss in transmission.

[FridgeFreezer]

Tony, you forgot:

4.6 V8 = 280lb/ft

186kw / 250hp

[white90]

Sory I did

4.6 V8 = 280lb/ft

186kw / 250hp

small amount of water in the vicinity or a

4.6V8=conked out

186Kw-no sodding use

2.8TD5

486Nm-358lb/ft gut wrenching halfshaft twisting CV busting power

155Kw-208Hp

[Lara]

That picture is a fantastic idea for a carpet,

Wonder where I can buy or get one made,

Answers on a postcard please

Lara.

[SteveG]

small amount of water in the vicinity

4.6V8=conked out

186Kw-no sodding use

Not if it's a Thor 4.6V8 it's not. It copes very well with water, unless you happen to have a bow wave off the windsceen and no snorkel that is!!

Steve

[will_warne]

Errm, I don't want to say too much but the projected outputs for my engine but the figures should be VERY inpressive. Power will be about 50 horses behind a 4.6 but the torque will be considerably higher

TC, you are quite right, top end on the 2.8 isn't stunning, its the low end torque you notice plus the fact its more free reving.

[orange rover]

The one thing you will need to watch is the gearbox temperature so I'd strogly reccomend a Laminova cooler, that way there's no oil cooler to block up. The important thing with an autobox is keeping the temperature down; they don't last long when they get too hot!

just installed a mocal 34 row 235 mm matrix oil cooler for the autobox. and it does the job, the box is really cool now. problem is now i'm wondering whether it's too cool. used to have about 90 degrees in traffic, now it's barely 60, both measured at the pipe where the oil flows out of the box. on the motorway more like below 50. any problems with a box that ist too cool?

regards

spec

[treetrimmer]

Thanks all, so far nothing but good news!

Tim

[SimonPearson]

Errm, I don't want to say too much but the projected outputs for my engine but the figures should be VERY inpressive. Power will be about 50 horses behind a 4.6 but the torque will be considerably higher

TC, you are quite right, top end on the 2.8 isn't stunning, its the low end torque you notice plus the fact its more free reving.

Uh-oh... I sense another "Ooops, my diesel's blown itself up" thread in the not too distant future!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I think Mr Eales and RPIs directors both nearly chocked on their teas and are now cleaning the keyboards....

MY coat ?......oh well thankyou

Nige

[will_warne]

Si, why? Tuning diesels is fine as long as you don't go OTT. Given the EGT figures I get right now I've got loads of scope to improve.

[Gary]

Hi Will

I have found this thread really interesting and a pleasure to read.

Your write up is excellent and the pictures great.

The installation looks really well executed, very impressed.

I am interested in fitting an EGT Gauge to my Defender. How have you found the unit you have installed on your landy in regards to the acuracy and the update speed of data? Is there a drill and tap version of the thermocouple or is the jubilee clip install the only option for that gauge? I'm also interested in the temp readings that you are getting?

Any info would be really appreciated.

Kind Regards, gary

[white90]

Gary have a look in the Tech section there is a lot of info re EGT gauges in there

[Gary]

Gary have a look in the Tech section there is a lot of info re EGT gauges in there

Hi White90

I have checked the Tech section, some good info in there.

I've also got some really useful feedback from the "adding gauges" thread in the defender section.

I've been scouting around on the net in general and come across the Turbobits website.

I was just curious to find out Will's opinion on the gauge really and a little curious of his running temps.

Thanx White90 (sorry, I don't know your name) for pointing me towards more info, it's appreciated mate.

Regards, gary B)

[will_warne]

Hi White90

I have checked the Tech section, some good info in there.

I've also got some really useful feedback from the "adding gauges" thread in the defender section.

I've been scouting around on the net in general and come across the Turbobits website.

I was just curious to find out Will's opinion on the gauge really and a little curious of his running temps.

Thanx White90 (sorry, I don't know your name) for pointing me towards more info, it's appreciated mate.

Regards, gary B)

Gary, its a great bit of kit. I've heard from Turbocharger that the Turbobits gauge responds quicker but its all swings and roundabouts as EGT doesn't jump, it just changes linearly (although quickly at times...). You can cut a thread in the manifold to fit the probe but I personally wouldn't as it means there's more likelihood of getting swarf into the manifold (and then into the turbo).

In terms of readings, I've got the temp up to 680 holding the vehicle in 3rd up a steep hill. Really the limit for a road engine is arround 730 but if you're less worried about shortening the life of the engine you can use 800 as the absolute limit. On a Tdi, I'd expect the max temp to be more like 550-600 in standard tune; the TGV has overboost at the bottom of the throttle travel that pushes max boost up to 1.2 bar and really shovels in fuel, that's wen the EGT gets high. Using just the normal travel you only get to about 560 degrees.