Gremlin Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Hiya all Got to ask some of you fabricators an opinion. I am currently converting my front series axle to run disks. I know of all the kits out there but frankly i feel they are a bit too spendy for my tastes so i went the DIY route and also as a challenge. So i finally mocked up the bracket in question of which you can see the pic. Now for the dilemma. Next step is to have the brakets fabricated, which leaves me with a bit of a difficult decision. Basically i fabricated the bracket from 2 bits of wood, which i later glued together to get the final result. This will be used to help the engineer who will get my parts made help him visualise what i need, besides being used as a mockup and trial fitting. Now for the big question, should i machine from solid or make two bits and weld?? The latter will take less time to do and probably be cheaper, the first option will be time consuming as the rate the engineering guys work here, it will be a year when i get my brakets back. So solid or welded?? Thanks Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Is it safe or maybe legal to have a welded caliper bracket? I can only ever remember seeing these brackets as one piece cast (usually iron). I really don't know to be honest. The MOT regulations mention that no part of the steering should be welded or subjected to excessive heat. I wonder if there's a similar rule concerning the braking system. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 You need to do it from one piece, welding it will distort it and the calipers need to be in line with the discs. It's not that much more work on a lathe or milling machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Agreed, get it machined. The risks of failure are lower and tolerance to dodgy workmanship resulting in a product that won't put your life at risk is higher. Even if you welded two separate parts, you're still looking at having machining done, so for the sake of a little extra time on the mill (which is often trivial compared to setting up in the first place), just get the whole chunk done as one. If you go ahead, why not get a few sets done and sell them on to recoup the machining set up costs? Good luck, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Well my opinion was to do it from solid but it was worth asking. (i am getting impatient now!!) Distortion from the welding is a valid point since the mounting plate will be 10mm min, the other bit is 19mm. Thanks Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 There was a commercially available disc brake kit for series vehicles over here over 20 years ago that had welded caliper mounts. they had more offset than yours and no one ever broke one. just make it a little thicker than the finished size so that you can true it up after welding. If you peen the welds with a ball pointed punch you could minimise or even negate distortion. I don't know if the offset suits your application, but have a look at the flange and caliper mounting lugs on a scrap Rangy/ Disco rear axle housing. You could cut them off and remachine them,They would give you a very good head start and would be a one piece unit. Are you running 24 spline outer front halfshafts ? If so you may havebeen able to fit early RangeRover front stub axle/spindles to the series swivels to save modifying series hubs and just use Defender disc on a Rangy rear hub redrilled and tapped to suit Defender drive flanges Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hi Bill, Have a look in the series forum, i posted a pic of the whole assembly mounted to the housing. I tried various options with regards hubs but the best solution to make everyting fit was to machine the series hubs due to the disk offset and i wanted to use rover parts for availability. Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 When I made the calliper brackets for my rally car they were made in three pieces. The bit that fitted in place of the back plate was made like a C with three mouning holes. To mount it to the axle. Two holes opposite the mounting to axle bit were drilled to take a boss drilled and tapped for the calliper bolts. The bosses were like a top hat. with the smaller bit fitting into the holes in the bracket. The two bosses then welded to the bracket I've seen the drawing recently but where I have no idea. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 The caliper brackets / flanges are welded to most coil sprung axles - so there cannot be an issue welding them. Your design would lend itself to being made from two plates (laser cut?) just sandwiched together and bolted - don't even bother welding them. Welding the plates together will make little difference to the strength. So, all you need is to get the plate cut. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 The caliper brackets / flanges are welded to most coil sprung axles - so there cannot be an issue welding them.Your design would lend itself to being made from two plates (laser cut?) just sandwiched together and bolted - don't even bother welding them. Welding the plates together will make little difference to the strength. So, all you need is to get the plate cut. Si I don't see how you could bolt the caliper lugs to the flange. There isn't room, it is a very tight fit around the swivel housing, that's why the chamfer near where the lug plate meets the flange is there. Grem, do you have the dimension from the flange mounting surface to the caliper mounting surface ? I think I have an old Rangey rear axle housing in the shed to measure to see if you can make your brackets from the ends of that. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 7, 2007 Author Share Posted June 7, 2007 I don't see how you could bolt the caliper lugs to the flange. There isn't room, it is a very tight fit around the swivel housing, that's why the chamfer near where the lug plate meets the flange is there.Grem, do you have the dimension from the flange mounting surface to the caliper mounting surface ? I think I have an old Rangey rear axle housing in the shed to measure to see if you can make your brackets from the ends of that. Bill. Thanks for all the input guys Thats right Bill, space is at a premuim, i cannot see anyway of making it out of plate as Si said, unless 4mm will suffice to hold the caliper from rotating than bolting the thick plate to the 4mm plate. The drum back plates are 4mm in fact and my first attempt was going to be a chopped down backplate to hold the caliper, but i thought this solution to be a bit more appropiate as a mounting bracket. I see what you mean Bill about the rangie axle housing but i am afraid the caliper mounting holes differ from front to rear (at least on a 90 they do). I tried using the rear 110 salisbury brackets but they are far too thick, have the wrong offset and caliper mounting holes. Bill flange to caliper mounting surface is 18mm a couple of more pics.................. Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Grem, you might do well to seek Tonk's input when he's back from Ireland. He's done this and knowing Tonk is probably on version 5 by now getting better all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 A friend of mine some year ago had an engineering firm make up a disc conversion kit for his 101 Forward Control. These have even larger swivel housings, so to gain sufficient distance between the disc and the swivel housing to fit the caliper bracket in, the bracket was made to sandwich between the swivel housing and the stub axle. IIRC the CV joint support bush had to be space further in by 5/16'' and 1/4'' had to be machined off the drive flange so that the CV remained centred. Series 3's except for stage ones don't have CV joint bushings, so you'd only need to do the drive flanges. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 A friend of mine some year ago had an engineering firm make up a disc conversion kit for his 101 Forward Control. These have even larger swivel housings, so to gain sufficient distance between the disc and the swivel housing to fit the caliper bracket in, the bracket was made to sandwich between the swivel housing and the stub axle. IIRC the CV joint support bush had to be space further in by 5/16'' and 1/4'' had to be machined off the drive flange so that the CV remained centred. Series 3's except for stage ones don't have CV joint bushings, so you'd only need to do the drive flanges.Bill. Thats another way of doing it as i run a stage 1 front axle...................... Hmmmmmm more food for thought! Back to the mockup bits....................... Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Have a look here http://www.heystee-automotive.com/ click the disk brake button on left side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Got to ask some of you fabricators an opinion. I am currently converting my front series axle to run disks. I know of all the kits out there but frankly i feel they are a bit too spendy for my tastes so i went the DIY route and also as a challenge. As per my tread start.......... Thanks anyway......... Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I say just paint that wooden bit black and bolt it on...... "Grab" went the hat..... "rustle" went the coat..... "SLAM" went the door...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Hmmmm............... tempting.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Jamie......... Did you make a wooden axle recently and paint it black?? (Worried look on my face..) Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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