SiWhite Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I've hit a bit of a brick wall with designing my MM install, mainly centered around how to switch the bluudy thing. Options (in no order of preference) are..... 1. Normal spool valve. Pros - nice, simple and cheap - maybe about £50, nice inching capability and good control. Cons - difficult to remote operate, more plumbing required to go from pump under bonnet to spool under seat box, hyd lines closer to the cab. 2. High flow electric valve block, as supplied with Type Rs. Pros - can be remote operated from anywhere easily (even wireless remote control which I like), can be sited more easily i.e under bonnet and hence less plumbing required. Cons - super spendy (£250ish), and even though it's billed as soft start, I'm abit fearful of it being too 'snatchy'. Now, your learned opinions are required! Some of the issues I've highlighted can be rectified - spool valve can be remote operated with bowden cables or pneumatic soleniods (and hence the wireless remote control will work), spool valve can be under bonnet mounted with a remote lever in the cab so reducing plumbing and keeping the cab away from high pressure lines etc. I NEED to be able to control the winch from the front of the wagon as well as the cab. I KNOW this isn't ever going to be a cheap build - if the 'leccy valve is good enough, I'll get it in a heartbeat, and it solves the control issue well. My concern is that it's going to be too 'on/off' if that makes sense, and the merest touch will snatch me forward a couple of inches. How good is the soft start on a Type R, and is it worth the money over building remotes for a spool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 FWIW, i'm in the same boat. A pair solenoids for two winches is a lot of money, one's bad enough! How far have you looked into pneumatic solenoids? are there valve blocks available off-the-shelf to take them? Sorry to answer your post with more questions, at least you know you're not alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I am using an electric solenoid setup with control switches sited outside and inside the cab. I find it excellent and have no control problems with the setup. I usually start it at tickover and then being up the revs. I also am using an electric clutch on the pump mounted where the air con should go, powerful and safe. I a manual spool set before and would not go back to it again. As said the spool block is sited out under the front wing with a few cables to where the switches are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan kemp Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I am on leccy solenoids, some have said it looks jerky but I have never noticed. As stated above, start winching on tickover and bring the revs up. The same solenoid will do both if you use a valve to select fromt or rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 with in the cab and out side control required Si , electric valves would be the simplest solution , will you have a hand throttle outside too? The biggest draw back with my setup is paying in the cable with no load if I'm on my own....but then I shouldn't be off-roading on my own anyway as thats usually when things happen Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Wheres Fridgefreezer with the bodyshop video link? although binary in nature, a solenoid setup in reality is incredibly precise Si, hypothetically it would seem that it could be jerky but its really not an issue (bear in mind the cars engine tickover will dip marginally when the winch loads up) - you can spool by the inch or finer (try that with a leccy) one solenoid block and a changeover valve would be the cheap(er) way - If memory serves Allan at Alfred Murray was talking about a new and groovier control block that allows both front and rear winches to be operated simultaneously Steve - Ive got the supergroovey mondo expensive hand throttle, it gives the option of stepped (clicky) increase or infinitely variable, these super techno controllers are only available from Super Extreme Offroad suppliers (or pinched from a mates bicycle), set and forget - works a peach I guess you could hook a servo and have it RF controlled for a bit of Uber bling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I'm the same I have a really hi tech trottle control nicked from a lawnmower, cheap and easy to replace. there is a hole on the fuel pump arm for the cable to fit in to as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 Thanks for the input fellas. Having thought about, it the electric soleniod does seem to be the way to go for ease of multiple control points. I've already got a 12v switchover valve which'll allow the rear to be controlled by the same soleniod block, thus reducing outlay a little! Luke, I've not looked into spools that will accept a pneumatic actuation - thinking about it, a pneumatic would snap a spool from fully closed to fully open in a flash - super jerky and bumper-ripping-off! I'd only need the control in the front to spool in the plasma after it's been cleaned etc, so probably no need for a hand throttle at the front, but nice suggestion for the bike shifter! I'd love to see the Type R valve in startup or stop - anyone got a short videp clip to set my mind at rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Luke, I've not looked into spools that will accept a pneumatic actuation - thinking about it, a pneumatic would snap a spool from fully closed to fully open in a flash - super jerky and bumper-ripping-off! Yup, pneumatics wouldn't do proportional very well at all would they. I'd love to see the Type R valve in startup or stop - anyone got a short videp clip to set my mind at rest? Jez mentioned the body shop vid, if that was solenoid control then solenoid control is fine enough! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 Not seen that one (only the one of Petal pulling the RR) - got a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Been searching for it, can't find it. Using petal to pull a dent out of the back of a car, very controlled. Fridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmatt Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 My MM has the ''commercial'' use valve block with solanoid operation. I have a dash switch, but Primaraly my winch is controlled via the Lodar remote control. Its not proportional as such but if you get a feel for the lodar you can take the strain up carefully. I suppose though my use is much different to you guys. My MM is used on a working vehicle and the bonus of lodar is I can be sat up a tree dismsntling large limbs while controling the winch, much safer than the ground crew trying to look up and guess whats happening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hmmmmmmm I used to have remote wander leads, nearly everytime I connected them I then fed them back into the cab so I used them from there, frnkly I decided when winching I would be using te winch, and for 99% of time from inside the cab, and also I wnated something fixed that I could drop and go "Bottom" at the least opportune moment. As a result I have twin spool blocks mounted just by the cubby box with varivalve control Works for me, and quality 2x block was still only £80 ish Have a think of the above / usage / by whom and when ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I agree that wander leads are a PITA, hence the reason I now have a Lodar 9000 and I can't imagine using anything else now, so easy and you can do whatever, rig a ground anchor single handed by winching it in to the ground while at the other end of the rope (something I have to do at least half the times I use the winch), and it works just as well inside the vehicle as out so one control does everywhere. I thought about putting a switch on the dash but I decided I couldn't be bothered to take the dash out to run the wiring so the switch is still hanging on the wall... Its a bit like a TV. Do you want to have to sit next to it while you are using it, do you want to have a cable trailing across the living room floor, or do you want to be able to change channels from anywhere... Easy choice for me When I did have a wired remote I had the socket in the cab as it seemed to make more sense that way - you can leave it plugged in all the time then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Could you not do both?? Before I put on my coat and head out the door I will explain... Have a spool valve (cheaper and more controllable than solenoid) in the cab for use with higher revs and flowrates and hence higher line speeds when you need it. Then have a standard MM solenoid valve connected as well which can then be controlled from outside, via switches or remote etc, when the engine is at tickover and hence low flow rate (to suit the valve!) and low line speed for solo cable respooling etc? The high pressure feed from the pump would need a switchover valve to direct the flow to the appropriate valve, low pressure returns from both valves be fed back into the reservoir, and the two high pressure feeds (flow & return) to the winch from the solenoid would need to be t'd into the high pressure lines from the spool valve to the winch- no need for one way valves etc as long as only one valve operated at one time? A reasonable compromise? I was personally leaning towards a spool valve ( in my proposed system- which I believe you would refer to as vapour?? ) as even with a soft start solenoid valve I was concerned that there would still be a 'snatch' on the winch line if it was started when the engine was being revved- I appreciate that if the engine is a tickover this is not an issue but if I were to be drive assisting and had to stop winching and then start winching again I would not necessarily want to drop the engine rev back to tickover for a smooth take up?- Anyone with the soft start solenoid got any views on this??- what is the start up like with the engine already being revved?? Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 hydro control with a Type R on solenoids Winch Bodyshop Linky control never seemed to be an issue - its does fast in a big way if I want it to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Agreed control does look spot on- I assume that was with the engine at idle? As I said I was interested to see how smooth it was when engaging the winch at higher engine revs? Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 my question would be why would you want sub inch control at higher RPM's? the pump is rated to 2000rpm and even then control really isnt an issue. I think possibly you're trying to solve a problem that in reality isnt there. Ive used Type Rs for three years and the mix of being able to winch, drive, drive assist or any combo of the above works (for me) really well. I can appreciate that in theory the line speed they are capable of sounds high but in practice (for the stuff we do) it simply isnt fast enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Sorry if you are misunderstanding where I am coming from- I think we both appreciate the speed, power and control of hydraulics- it is not the control at high line speeds that concerns me- Hydraulic will always be very controlled regardless of the speed. My question was in relation to starting the winch when the engine revs are high- is there any noticeable snatch on the winch line with the soft start solenoid valve? On a side note...how much faster are you hoping to go than it does already??- Looks pretty damn quick to me!! Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I've had the pedal on the bulkhead and yanged on the go switch on err...... more than a few occassions seriously it works fine 2 or 3 times faster would hit the spot for the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Bugger... I hate it when you have made up your mind about something and then someone goes and changes it for the more expensive option... Are you looking to up the size of the drum before going even faster? Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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