andylandy Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Today in the UK a 2.8tgv powered landrover produced 450lbft That figure was produced at 1300 rpm It could be more as the car that engine is fitted to is using a 38mm air restrictor 132bhp and 450lbft all this with a bit more fuel and a bigger intercooler These are rolling road figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Will? Will...? Sorry, Mr Warne's passed out - all the blood seems to have rushed from his head! Impressive figures indeed - have you got the rolling road sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 If this is the case FUGGIN HELLFIRE An R380 will be blown to bits... thank goodness you went Auto Will anymore specific details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylandy Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 yes the sheet can be produced thats not a problem my problem is that my 2.8 has the same intercooler but 4xthe ammount of air going to the engine so we will be able to put more fuel in and that will greatly increse the bhp and that torqe figure will also increse and then just incase i dont have enough power i can switch on the gas and that increses the bhp by at least 30bhp and torque by 50lbft OMG its going to be quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez ! Strap a speaker to the block and shove the sound of a V8 thro it an you have a winner B) Seriously what it the life expectancy of the unit ?......how strained is it ?...and do you care I do not love "oilburners" but I was years ago overtaken by a young Mr Fearn demon thingy on a comp safari, I was in a 5.7 chevy thingy and was mightilty impressed if not a bit hacked off Often power extraction at this level from a diesel is possible, but the life expectancy shortened..... ? Post more, even me a hardened V8er is interseted ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylandy Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 well i cant see why it will be straind (i am sure someone will inform me) all the power you need is there by 1,300 change gear and the jonny wilkinson felling will happen all over again bloody fantastic all that power and now wading worrys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The jealous, the gloomy, and the neigh-sayers will come up with seemingly credible explanations of the negative impact on life expectancy as a result, but this is being done the old fashioned way as far as I can tell and, provided EGTs are managed, I for one just won't believe them ( provided there's not silly over boost on a standard turbo ). Well done, and great joy to all those who have this tasty powerplant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exmodlad Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Today in the UK a 2.8tgv powered landrover produced 450lbft That figure was produced at 1300 rpm It could be more as the car that engine is fitted to is using a 38mm air restrictor 132bhp and 450lbft all this with a bit more fuel and a bigger intercooler These are rolling road figures will have to be doing some talking to you about my 110............. Big Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Andy, 132bhp and 450lbft all this with a bit more fuel and a bigger intercooler Without sounding like a sceptic.... that's 610 Nm..... No chance. (though I may be proved wrong!!!) 450 Nm I could belive, which would be 331ftlb. As standard they put out 375 Nm and have 135 bhp.... Even with an excellent Allisport Intercooler () and fuel pump tweaks I doubt you'd make an extra 235 Nm..... esp. with a resticted air intake. As standard, a twin turbo Jaguar 24-valve V6 Diesel only puts out 435Nm of torque (though they can make a bit more ) An R380 will be blown to bits... Although rated to 380 Nm... according to Ashcrofts (spoke to them when I was going to have a V8) they will take a bit more... but I'd imagine 450 Nm would be it's limit (if it is 610Nm I think it'll just go bang!!! - I doubt even a Auto would take that) - and it would definetly need a gearbox cooler. I'd be more worried about the clutch, I've heard that even heavy duty ones on a standard engine don't always last too long!! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Andy, Without sounding like a sceptic.... that's 610 Nm..... No chance. 450 Nm I could belive, which would be 331ftlb. As standard they put out 375 Nm and have 135 bhp.... Even with an excellent Allisport Intercooler () and fuel pump tweaks I doubt you'd make 235 Nm..... esp. with a resticted air intake. A twin turbo Jaguar 24-valve V6 Diesel only puts out 435Nm of torque. Although rated to 380 Nm... according to Ashcrofts (spoke to them when I was going to have a V8) they will take a bit more... but I'd imagine 450 Nm would be it's limit (if it is 610Nm I think it'll just go bang!!! - I doubt even a Auto would take that) - and it would definetly need a gearbox cooler. I'd be more worried about the clutch, I've heard that even heavy duty ones on a standard engine don't always last too long!! Ian Well, Andy says the dyno sheet is available so unless forged, the question becomes what else was done besides fueling and intercooling? I know that my 600 lb/ft Cummins Turbo Diesel is regularly pumped up by others more than 200 ft/lbs with chip and more air alone and a change in injectors and increased turbo/intercooling - either twins or just beefier - frequently take them over 1000 ft/lbs, so the claimed increase doesn't strike me as impossible. As to gearbox's, there are some chaps up in Canada - Old British Wheels on Ebay - who are allegedly working on adapter kits to mate the 2.8 to a number of popular US (mainly GM) beef boxes including the NV4500 which is plenty of box for that power - just in case..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Well, Andy says the dyno sheet is available so unless forged Wasn't questioning that... I met Andy at the L2B... nice bloke... I know that my 600 lb/ft Cummins Turbo Diesel is regularly pumped up by others more than 200 ft/lbs with chip and more air alone and a change in injectors and increased turbo/intercooling - either twins or just beefier - frequently take them over 1000 ft/lbs, so the claimed increase doesn't strike me as impossible. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's just over a 62% increase in torque... Where-as, with your Cummins, another 200 lb/ft with mild tweaks is only a 33% increase, which is more achievable IMHO... To get to a 1000 ft/lbs, which is a 67% improvement, you need to start changing injectors, bigger turbo's etc etc... But IMHO, a Cummins is probably in a very mild state of tune as standard anyway... mainly due to planned usage and engine longevity. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Wasn't questioning that... I met Andy at the L2B... nice bloke...I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's just over a 62% increase in torque... Where-as, with your Cummins, another 200 lb/ft with mild tweaks is only a 33% increase, which is more achievable IMHO... To get to a 1000 ft/lbs, which is a 67% improvement, you need to start changing injectors, bigger turbo's etc etc... But IMHO, a Cummins is probably in a very mild state of tune as standard anyway... mainly due to planned usage and engine longevity. Ian Agreed. I just hope the story on the 2.8 is true because it's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Unfortunatly that's not my engine but 'kin hell!!!!!! I'd been hoping for 400lb/ft. That's AWESOME! I'd love to see the dyno readouts. I know the figures sound high but that's the joy of a large VGT turbo. Life expectancy will be shorter but this is on a competition vehicle (as mine will be) so as long as it doesn't blow up 2 minutes after leaving the rolling road its OK. On the gearbox, an R380 might be OK with an oil cooler and TVR spec internals but I think you will be running on the limits! As for as the autobox goes, you'll need the build I've had but that still might not be enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Unfortunatly that's not my engine but 'kin hell!!!!!! I'd been hoping for 400lb/ft. That's AWESOME! I'd love to see the dyno readouts. I know the figures sound high but that's the joy of a large VGT turbo. Life expectancy will be shorter but this is on a competition vehicle (as mine will be) so as long as it doesn't blow up 2 minutes after leaving the rolling road its OK.On the gearbox, an R380 might be OK with an oil cooler and TVR spec internals but I think you will be running on the limits! As for as the autobox goes, you'll need the build I've had but that still might not be enough Whilst I realise all that, I'm still dubious....(Definetly want to see the dyno print out) VNT turbo's have their benefits... but with just a bit of tweaking and a big intercooler, a improvement of 62% is quite a bit. Main benefit is reduced lag, but your still only blowing the same amount of air in (though the turbo is also bigger), it just changes the torque curve, meaning that you get more torque low down. It I get chance, I might do some calculations. I really don't see how such an improvement is possible, unless the TGV engine is seriously detuned as standard... though I may be proved wrong. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I hope its true it would be nice to see, my experience with dyno's is limited to building drag bikes and race bikes so car dyno's are unknown territory for me - but I do know its easy to tweek the parameters to read almost any result you want What type of dyno was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylandy Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 right boys as i said at the start of the topic these figures are ture we had andy @ allisport TD5 on the same set of and with propane injection the TD5 made 198bhp and 360-370lbft (some of you must have sean the results posted at the shows) the car tested on with the 2.8tgv produced 450lbft @ 1300 rpm (these fig are not allisport figures they provided the intercoller) when my car gets back from RFC i will inform all of you where my car will be rolling roaded at we can have a dyno shoot out these figures 2.8 are posted here for our disscusion and i am as suprised as lots of you but you got a say its one stonking engine ps i hope my r380 last for 10 days in the jungle then we can watch it go bang on the rollers it will be turned into a auto then its the only way to go with this much grunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Im a bit confused, So Allisports Td5 made 198BHP, ok thats doable, 360-370ft/lbs surprising but nice. I just dont follow what a Td5 has to do with a 2.8TGV.. Were the figures for the 2.8 from an actual dyno run or just what you expect to see having carried out a load of mods? was it on a rolling road or a engine cell? if you are making a genuine 450ft/lbs then you are going to need a TH400 - not a ZF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Im a bit confused,So Allisports Td5 made 198BHP, ok thats doable, 360-370ft/lbs surprising but nice. I just dont follow what a Td5 has to do with a 2.8TGV.. I think Andy was referring to the fact that Allisports tweaked Td5 has been proven on a couple of rolling roads to be giving that power/torque, so when he wheeled the 2.8 onto the same rolling road, the figures whould be pretty accurate. i think.... It's certainly a nice engine through, when i was following it through Brizzle a while ago just in standard tune (although it had my old 4.1:1 diffs in it) it went like sh!t off a shovel, and it sounds so nice too, a little like a cross between a 300 and a Td5... definately diesel but free revving and "willing".... (just like a good woman should be! LOL! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I think what Andy was saying is that a Td5 has been proved to be capable of a 60% or so power and torque hike so those sort of increases are possible. Me, I'd be happy enough with an ordinary 2.8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I think Andy was referring to the fact that Allisports tweaked Td5 has been proven on a couple of rolling roads to be giving that power/torque, so when he wheeled the 2.8 onto the same rolling road, the figures whould be pretty accurate.i think.... What does that prove?? A tweaked Land Rover is of a unkown quality, unless you can bench mark it against a known standard vehicle - to prove the rolling road figures are accurate. You would need to put standard vehicle on the rolling road, and check the rolling road figures agree with the published results for that car before running the tuned car. Rolling roads are not always the most accurate things in the world. I'm also intrigued how the rolling road calculated back to flywheel figures. Having calculated the BMEP for the 'tweaked' TGV engine - I still believe the published figures are a bit optomistic Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 There's a 2.8 TGV kit for sale over on LRO, you can view here....... 2.8 TGV Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 There's a 2.8 TGV kit for sale over on LRO, you can view here.......2.8 TGV Cheers Steve Well, (in typical LRO style)... there is one person advertising the engine, and 10,000 bitching and whining about god knows what! Still, i'd LOVE one of those.... (patience grasshopper....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I am over in the US. I have a friend who increased the fuel rate and needs original factory specs to return to original. Withing the fuel pump, He is the need of "the dimension from the adjustment wheel where the spring sets in it to the top of the housing. I can forward sketches of what is needed if you or anyone can supply this information just to make sure we are all on the same page. I have this enigne but it is still under warranty so I am not willing to take the measurements myself and wondering if anyone out there knows without having to void their warranty either. Thanks for any assistance Best Regards Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Well Andy, that is a FFFFFFF---------------IN lot of torque, Do not even think of putting that through a ZF 24 as you will blow it apart!!! I just wrecked my 5th Special uprated all singing and dancing ZF this morning and I "only" have 360ft/lbs @ 2000 rpm from my 2.8 TD5. now trying to sort something stronger I would also think that 450 was rather a lot from a 2.8 diesel, at what boost? 132bhp@1300 rpm must be gennerating some increddible cylinder pressures! But it all deppends on boost. Good luck, Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Just a thought, Asuming 132 @ 1300 rpm and asuming max power @ +- 4000 rpm what is the max power? this is my graph of my engine to DIN 70020 in KW and NM Just a note to check as some numbers do not seem to add up as by my recconing 132@1300 = 533lb/ft , Torque = HP (132) x 5252 (constant) RPM (1300) Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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