New 90 Warranty and Bumper Regulations

[HiFonics]

Not been around for a bit but looking at changing my 90 and had a couple questions.

I was looking at a late model TD5 County Hardtop but recently missed out on a 57 tdci model which got me thinking how do mods affect warranty in Landrover's eyes. I am not thinking of doing all the stuff I did to my current 90 to the new one but probably will changes tyres, suspension, rock sliders, remove bulkhead, seat rails, chip and intercooler. At what point will landrover tell you to go forth on warranty claims?

As a tdci will cost considerably more than the TD5's I was looking at and there seems to be gearbox issues, I guess if I get one I should just keep it fairly standard.

How do the regulations with bumpers work now? I wanted an ARB non winch bumper but I cant find anywhere selling them presumably because of these new rules. Even if I do manage to get one of these can I fit it to any vehicle I want legally or is there an age cutoff? I guess I can still bring one of these in from Oz.

Other than the ARB bumper what other non winch bumpers are there out there that arnt from scorpion?

[HiFonics]

Replying to my own post I see TBR are still doing the ARB winch bumper here

How does that work?

[western]

The original vehicle manufacturer cannot fit a all steel' A ' or bullbars anymore, But there's nothing to stop you fitting one to your vehicle.

[HiFonics]

The United Kingdom Minister of State for Transport has confirmed that from 25th May 2007, it will be illegal to continue manufacturing and selling metal bull bars that do not comply with the new EU legislation for pedestrian protection. This was stated in the Directive 2005/66/EC. The maximum penalty to be imposed within the UK is 12 months in prison and a substantial £20,000 fine.

Under the new directive, the Frontal Protection Systems (FPS) is required to enhance the safety of vehicles and to apply to products either fitted as original equipment or sold via the aftermarket. It will be impossible for wrap around metal bull bars to meet the strict new standards, so the legislation will effectively ban these products while endorsing new energy absorbing FPS products.

A bull bar is a device fitted to the front of a vehicle to protect it and its passengers from damage in a collision with an animal. It varies considerably in size and form, and is usually made of welded steel or aluminum tubing. Today, molded polycarbonate and polyethylene materials are the new compositions of truck bull bars. When you need to mount a spotlight or other off-road recovery equipment, a bull bar is a perfect fit. You do not need a set of fog lights or anything else as an excuse to buy a bull bar, get one for the cool looks alone. This also gives your vehicle rugged appearance and protects its front-end.

While many pedestrian groups claim bull bars are dangerous to pedestrians, some modern designs are actually safer than the same vehicle without a bulbar.

According to the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA), only one UK manufacturer is known to have developed a non-rigid FPS that complies with the requirements of the May legislation - this product is known as the Endura FPS.

Concept Moldings, an automotive manufacturer and supplier, has produced this revolutionary aftermarket product. Tests based on the 2005/66/EC legislation have proven to make 4x4s, SUVs and LCVs or light commercial vehicles up to 50 times safer. This was carried out at MIRA, one of Europe’s leading vehicle design, development and certification centers. All EC approved test data.

In the build up to May 25th, more Endura FPS products will be tested and will be available for small, medium and large vehicles. Popular car brands such as Toyota, Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and Ford will have aftermarket products approved for sale under the Endura banner.

Researches conducted by the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) reveal why the new EC legislation and the Endura FPS can make a major breakthrough in pedestrian safety. More than 900 UK and 12,000 European pedestrians and cyclists are killed every year. Meanwhile, more than 9,000 UK and 290,000 European pedestrians and cyclists are seriously injured every year. The Endura FPS absorbs massive amounts of energy on impact, protecting pedestrians and cyclist from hard parts of vehicles such as engine, bonnet leading edge and radiator. The introduction of Endura and the May legislation will reduce the staggering number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads today.

Andrew Miller, Director of Research, Thatcham reacted they welcome this new legislative change which will go a very long way in removing those potentially life-threatening bull bars from Britain's roads. He further said Thatcham looks forward to seeing the new Frontal Protection Systems on Britain's vehicles which have met the requirements of the new EC legislation and reduced damage. However, those must not endanger vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists.

I found this out while reading tonight. Sounds like I have to import one or find a 2nd hand one

[Happyoldgit]

Tried a forum search for bullbar?

So what are these gearbox issues then?

[SteveG]

I would say that the warranty depends on mods and depends on dealer. Anything drivetrain or engine related will cause you warranty issues if you have a 'jobsworth' service department at the dealer.

I've never had a problem with modified Range Rovers and Defender with warranty until last month with local dealer. I had some drivetrain shunt and although they booked it in and then started the work they changed their view mid way through after sending a form off to LR for approval. They listed all mods and even added a few like diff locks that weren't fitted. Seeing list of mods LR won't now warranty any of the drivetrain or suspension.

So if you plan to do suspension, engine an intercooler upgrades I would say that you are at the mercy of your local dealer.

For a definitive answer on the ARB bumper give Devon 4x4 a call. They will know what you can and can't fit.

As for sources of bumpers other than SR, there's loads. Safari Equip do all the SR bumpers, there's FirstFour, Devon 4x4, LRS Off-Road etc etc

Cheers

Steve

[HiFonics]

Tried a forum search for bullbar?

So what are these gearbox issues then?

I clearly failed at the forum search although that thread doesnt draw any certain conclusions. I think I might shy away from fitting some massive hunk of pig iron to the front though unless it passes the EU regulations now as I would be a bit worried in this ligitous society that a personal claim could be brought for injury due to the bull bar even if it was sort of allowed.

On the gearboxes I have seen a few thread across multiple forums about problems with the earlier 07 defenders:

Here and Here for example.

Maybe these are isolated instances but with my experience with Land Rovers they historically tend to have a few bugs in any new model.

Ben

[disco_al]

so how do these bullbar regs relate to fitting a 2nd hand one from say eblag? is that still allowed i wonder???

[western]

2nd hand from any source is OK.

[Top90]

But as they can't be fitted from new, wouldn't you need to inform the insurance company it's modified?

[western]

Yep same as any other modification.

[HiFonics]

But as they can't be fitted from new, wouldn't you need to inform the insurance company it's modified?

Whatever I plan to do in the end I think I will check with insurers first as I guess a lot of insurers would now be sniffy about non eu stamped bumpers. Having done extensive reading up on this and finding out very little I noticed that the ARB bumper confirms to Australian regulations but I dont know how these compare to EU rules.

[wkw90]

So can you buy a new winch bumper and fit it on an older Land Rover ?

[tacr2man]

Just my opinion but generally speaking any regulations are not retrospective, so an older vehicle can be fitted with items that were legal at the time of its registration, In other words a bull bar on a series vehicle etc no probs .

Fitting a bull bar to a vehicle that was registered after anti bull bar legislation , a big No . esp[ecially if the vehicle was required to have pedestrian friendly construction. Having said all that commercial vehicles are quite often a seperate case.

If land rover dont list a metal bull bar but only a soft(poly bar) that tends to confirm. it.

[Guest diesel_jim]

If land rover dont list a metal bull bar but only a soft(poly bar) that tends to confirm. it.

I wonder how much that is do with pedestrian road safety, or to do with pleasing the tree huggers a bit.

[Top90]

I wonder how much that is do with pedestrian road safety, or to do with pleasing the tree huggers a bit.

I would imagine pedestrians bounce of the rubber/foam type much better then the solid steel bar at body height.

In fact the newer ones are probably better for pedestrians than having no bar at all fitted to the front of a defender.

[JSG]

Dealers will still sell you one of the 'soft' a bars in both winch and non winch variants.

My insurance company are ok with any extras that were dealer options - ie available from a main dealer but seem to get twitchy about aftermarket mods.