Another mad cap idea…..

[The Hatt]

Does anyone know how easy it would be to fit a BMW V8 (4.4 M62 petrol V8 from the early 3rd Gen Range Rover) to a Land Rover?

Has anyone got one of these to mate to a LT77/R380 or the ZF auto from a RRC/Disco?

Thinking Megaquirt to take care of the ECU side of things.

How big are these engines? Will they fit a Defender/Discovery 1 engine bay?

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Try asking on the AWDC forum as I think a lot of people are running BMW motors in their comp-safari racers (though possibly mainly of the petrol variety). Someone there may know how much work is involved.

[DaveSIIA]

But seriously, I don't have a driveway at present or a workshop and doing a major engine swap outside on the road would be illegal and stupid. Not too mention a lack of electricity and other resources.

Sure if I had the money, ability, time and resources I'd probably buy a TD5 and fit all the Twisted Performance aftermarket tuning parts to it in the hope of seeing 200-220bhp and still retaining mid 20's mpg. But having looked into this I deem it a more complex, difficult and ultimately more expensive route for me to go.

The same follows for a V8 and I simply don't want/can't afford to use it if it only averages sub 20mpg all the time not just highway style driving.

And to be honest I first started on this train of thought buy looking at fitting a Jaguar 4.2 V8 to a Defender but after some research it appeared that I could find no one who had done this and that getting the Jaguar V8 to run without its ECU is very very difficult even more so if you want a manual gearbox, which ideally I do.

I then looked at a LS1 powered Defender. But after pricing this up decided that to do it properly was far too expensive.

So I then looked at making the most out of what I already have on a more modest and realistic budget.

Yeah I thought it would be different.

You see I have my 200Tdi Discovery and I've got an old 88 Series 3. But the 88's motor is no more so need to think of what to do. I've also got a 300tdi auto Disco in the pipe line.

Ideally I'd like to make something good for trialling utilising what I've got and without breaking the bank.

So possibly converting the 88 to coils using one of the Disco's. But thought maybe a different engine would be more interesting.

Lot and lots of possibilities... shame about the lack of money though...... lol

You seem to have a lot of ideas running at the moment - Nitrous Tdi / Td5 88 / Mega economic V8. They each have their own merits and warrant interest, yet you have managed to cite numerous reasons why each is not feasible or you find a counter to your thought train.

A vapour build would be the best bet until you have a garage or workshop to use as an "inventing shed".

Coat on, door slam!

[The Hatt]

You seem to have a lot of ideas running at the moment - Nitrous Tdi / Td5 88 / Mega economic V8. They each have their own merits and warrant interest, yet you have managed to cite numerous reasons why each is not feasible or you find a counter to your thought train.

A vapour build would be the best bet until you have a garage or workshop to use as an "inventing shed".

Coat on, door slam!

So discussion and questions are forbidden on this website then?

And who said I intend to build all or any of these. Or are you just out to rubbish and insult?

But hay thanks a million

[Les Henson]

You seem to have a lot of ideas running at the moment

Bluddy right - waste of time as it's never likely to happen due to the constraints already posted.

The HATT - You ask for comments and then argue the toss almost anally. If you have £600 or £1000 or whatever it is, then you can only do what your budget will allow. This ^^^^^^^ latest offering is clearly beyond what you can buy/pay someone else to do, so why bother asking?

Les.

[muddy]

So discussion and questions are forbidden on this website then?

Not at all, procrastination is all well and good if you are going to actually do something, but no one wants a forum full of ****e about 'can i do this' etc etc, anything at all can be done its not hard, any engine could be put onto an r380 just take a bandsaw to the bellhouseings!

your attitude is poor, you have all the answers you need on the other thread yet still search for more?? get one thing done/tested and then move on to the next (maybe fitting a new engine to your disco after the otherone has melted )

By all means keep asking questions but lets keep realistic eh?

Will.

[DaveSIIA]

So discussion and questions are forbidden on this website then?

And who said I intend to build all or any of these. Or are you just out to rubbish and insult?

But hay thanks a million

No, I'm not out to rubbish and insult. Your threads have kept me entertained over the past few days, and have generally been the first ones I read on a return visit. They have certainly precipitated some forthright views.

As I said previously, each of your ideas has its own merits and warrants interest. Given a modicum of resource, an moderately talented and ingenious person could bring to fruition some of your concepts, and each for a not too unreasonable budget. However, the shotgun effect of simultaneously launching several disconnected threads serves to highlight a lack of focus and suggests a gulf between aspiration and achievement.

Take the nitrous on Tdi concept: As an engineer, if that was what I wanted to build, I would ensure that I understood how to monitor staying within acceptable limits for the engine/technology, secure the hardware and get it built. I would also want to understand the consequences of failure and whether I found them acceptable i.e. blown motor means no car, means no transport or it's ok as its not my daily driver and the piggy bank is rattling full of coins.

There is nothing new or unique about nitrous kit - it has been around for ??? decades - so it must be possible to assemble the system quite cheaply using secondhand parts and some information out of performance tuning books from your library or a trawl the internet. Tdi's are cheap enough to replace if the unfortunate happens (I gave £500 for a low mileage ex-Disco 300 that has turned out to be a really sweet engine), that it won't be a mega-bucks experiment. Only you can make the call on the consequences of failure.

Have a read through the Lowered Td5 and Lowered Td5 - Update threads as an illustration of how an idea that wasn't favourably received turned to universal acclaim. Perhaps nitrous on a Tdi will give an interesting short term performance boost. It is certainly out of the box thinking, and a build with before/after or on/off performance figures would silence the critics.

BTW: I was told it wasn't possible to turbocharge a LR 2.25D (3 main bearing at that), and for it to survive - oh how they laughed! I built it anyway and put a little over 35,000 miles on it in just over a year. There was a slight hiccup at ~4k miles when I melted a piston (about £50 for the complete repair), and I learned a lot about the thermal dynamics of diesel engines, EGT, etc. That was back in the mid-90's when TD's and Tdi's were far from cheap or plentiful and there wasn't the ready access to the vast library of the internet. That motor still runs in my IIA SWB today, but I wouldn't want to repeat the exercise.

[The Hatt]

No, I'm not out to rubbish and insult. Your threads have kept me entertained over the past few days, and have generally been the first ones I read on a return visit. They have certainly precipitated some forthright views.

As I said previously, each of your ideas has its own merits and warrants interest. Given a modicum of resource, an moderately talented and ingenious person could bring to fruition some of your concepts, and each for a not too unreasonable budget. However, the shotgun effect of simultaneously launching several disconnected threads serves to highlight a lack of focus and suggests a gulf between aspiration and achievement.

Take the nitrous on Tdi concept: As an engineer, if that was what I wanted to build, I would ensure that I understood how to monitor staying within acceptable limits for the engine/technology, secure the hardware and get it built. I would also want to understand the consequences of failure and whether I found them acceptable i.e. blown motor means no car, means no transport or it's ok as its not my daily driver and the piggy bank is rattling full of coins.

There is nothing new or unique about nitrous kit - it has been around for ??? decades - so it must be possible to assemble the system quite cheaply using secondhand parts and some information out of performance tuning books from your library or a trawl the internet. Tdi's are cheap enough to replace if the unfortunate happens (I gave £500 for a low mileage ex-Disco 300 that has turned out to be a really sweet engine), that it won't be a mega-bucks experiment. Only you can make the call on the consequences of failure.

Have a read through the Lowered Td5 and Lowered Td5 - Update threads as an illustration of how an idea that wasn't favourably received turned to universal acclaim. Perhaps nitrous on a Tdi will give an interesting short term performance boost. It is certainly out of the box thinking, and a build with before/after or on/off performance figures would silence the critics.

BTW: I was told it wasn't possible to turbocharge a LR 2.25D (3 main bearing at that), and for it to survive - oh how they laughed! I built it anyway and put a little over 35,000 miles on it in just over a year. There was a slight hiccup at ~4k miles when I melted a piston (about £50 for the complete repair), and I learned a lot about the thermal dynamics of diesel engines, EGT, etc. That was back in the mid-90's when TD's and Tdi's were far from cheap or plentiful and there wasn't the ready access to the vast library of the internet. That motor still runs in my IIA SWB today, but I wouldn't want to repeat the exercise.

Thanks for your very knowledgeable reply. I guess it does appear a little disjointed. And for many reasons, most I don't really want to discuss on a public forum.

The TDI nitrous thing is somewhat separate idea to the other threads. The Disco is my main 4x4 but not a DD. I want to keep it usable without spending too many £££'s on it, but at the same time I'd like to make it a tad different. I don't really want to blow the motor in it, but as the engine only cost me £470 well over 2 years back then I really can't complain if it goes pop by adding the nitrous.

To further this the Disco is currently the only vehicle I have with 4 proper seats so I'm inclined to keep it this way. It is however the vehicle I use to compete in Land Rover Trials with, although I know its not ideal.

In addition to this last year I bought a diesel Series 3 88 with the intent of prepping it for trialling. Sadly although I bought it as a supposed runner, the engine is seized. I did consider chopping my Disco down and making an 88 hybrid out of the two but as stated above I'd like to keep the Disco as a 4 seater. So I've been pondering what to do with the 88.

Then recently I've been offered a 300tdi Disco auto. Now as I already have one Disco I probably won't be keeping this, at least not as a regular Disco. So the choices are chop it down instead and use the Series 3 body. But I'm also interested in doing something more exciting with the engine, hence the TD5 and BMW V8 threads. I could decide to say sod it to the Series 3 for now and just look at an engine swap in this Disco and then maybe sell the other one. I really don't know.

As for not having anywhere to work, well its true. Since I moved house I no longer have a driveway or a workshop. But I'm hoping to sort out a driveway sometime this summer.

I do have access to other locations but they are not suitable at present. As unfortunately I have a TR7 V8 parked up at one place which would be suitable. But the TR7 needs a new axle on it, which I just haven't had time or interest in recently.

Then there's what do I do about the Series 3. It's in a field that belongs to a family member, but depending on what time of the year I could probably use one of the barns for a short period of time, but not during harvest as they will be used.

So yes it is disjointed but that's because I have too many vehicles, too much imagination at what I'd like to do to them and in reality not enough time or money to complete most of them. So I probably end up talking more than doing.

As it stands this is what I have at present:

-Chevy Camaro z/28

-Triumph TR7 V8 (in need of new axle)

-Peugeot 106 diesel (my current DD)

-Discovery 200Tdi (intent to add nitrous too, but also needs a front diff)

-Series 3 88 (in a field somewhere and need of a new engine)

-Discovery 300tdi auto (not with me yet but due to pick it up any time soon)

I have considered chopping in most of them and buying a TD5 90. But for reasons of my own I've decided against this route at present.

Also combining the fact that fairly recently I have managed to reduce my daily commute from 120 miles to just 46 miles I'm keen to look at alternatives.

Current thinking is this:

-Keep Camaro because its fast/fun and holds its money well (for weekend use mostly)

-Sell Peugeot

-Sell TR7

-Buy a Ford Puma and run on LPG as a new daily driver

-Fix 200Tdi Discovery and add mitrous

-Sort out what to do with 88 and 300TDI Disco

Aim is to:

-Keep a fast tidy car (Camaro)

-Affordable daily driver (Puma)

-Larger family sized off roader able to be used on holidays or when 4 seats are needed (200tdi Disco)

-Something a little bit different in terms of an off roader that could be used for competition (maybe a Series 3 88 pick up with coil suspension, BMW V8 or modern diesel, trick suspension and big tyres, oh and must be ARC legal as I like sticking to ARC events)

Convoluted - yes. But hay its just me

[88 Nick]

I used to like doing ALRC stuff but they dont allow "trickm suspension"or big tyres

[The Hatt]

I used to like doing ALRC stuff but they dont allow "trickm suspension"or big tyres

Yes its a pain. I'm hoping to use a fully retained suspension setup with some of X-Eng's new trailing arms as this should be within the rules. Can run upto a 33" tyre which is still big enough to break stuff with, so will be happy at that. )

[FridgeFreezer]

The question is why cling to a LR gearbox that is not really designed for the power? Adapt a gearbox that FITS to join to the LT230.

Also why coil a Series when Defenders can be had cheaper - sell the Series to someone who wants a Series and buy a coiler. In the age of the SVA and cheap coilers there's no longer any point coiling a Series.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Bluddy right - waste of time as it's never likely to happen due to the constraints already posted.

The HATT - You ask for comments and then argue the toss almost anally. If you have £600 or £1000 or whatever it is, then you can only do what your budget will allow. This ^^^^^^^ latest offering is clearly beyond what you can buy/pay someone else to do, so why bother asking?

Les.

:rofl:

[protoprincess]

Les, Nige - you going to upset him now and he will ask even more questions

[The Hatt]

The question is why cling to a LR gearbox that is not really designed for the power? Adapt a gearbox that FITS to join to the LT230.

Also why coil a Series when Defenders can be had cheaper - sell the Series to someone who wants a Series and buy a coiler. In the age of the SVA and cheap coilers there's no longer any point coiling a Series.

I agree there are a ton of better gearboxes. But as I want to stay ARC compliant it means a big no no.

And you could be right about the Defender, but hay I've already got a Series.

[The Hatt]

Bluddy right - waste of time as it's never likely to happen due to the constraints already posted.

The HATT - You ask for comments and then argue the toss almost anally. If you have £600 or £1000 or whatever it is, then you can only do what your budget will allow. This ^^^^^^^ latest offering is clearly beyond what you can buy/pay someone else to do, so why bother asking?

Les.

Well I can't see the harm in asking, its not hurting no one. And to be 100% fair I never ever asked for advice on nitrous but how strong where the tdi lumps. Maybe I should have been more concise with what I was after or maybe not bothered asking at all (but I can hardly change that now).

Also see my post I made after yours explaining a lot of my reasoning of what I was/am doing.

Not too mention in my other thread I was bombarded with claims that an engine swaps (even citing the BMW V8) to be cheap and easy. So I've taken that advice and asked a question. If that's so wrong then help me buddy.

[Les Henson]

Easy - decide what you want to do, and how much you have, then ask. Perpetual speculation is pointless and annoying.

Les.

[The Hatt]

Easy - decide what you want to do, and how much you have, then ask. Perpetual speculation is pointless and annoying.

Les.

Something small, ARC compliant, fiarly unique and capable. Budget upto £7k in parts & labour but if less then all the better (just to clarify the nitrous tdi project is not related to this or this budget).

But to achieve this it may have to go thru several versions and a couple of years which I accept. Example, if I go the hybrid route I may chop the chassis first and run on the stock engine. Or I might do an engine transplant first and do the chop later.

And while a 90 is an obvious choice there is something that appeals about running a coil sprung 88 with modern suspension, brakes, running gear and engine.

[Happyoldgit]

But to achieve this it may have to go thru several versions and a couple of years which I accept.

Two more years of 'how abouts' , 'what ifs' , 'I'll ask a question but will argue with the answers' type stuff?

Hmmmm - maybe not.