Welder upgrade

[Les Henson]

I have at present a Butters 170 MIG, which I'm very happy with performance-wise. However - when I recently made my rear crossmember it was working at it's maximum setting, and the welds were only 'ok'. I'd like to have the ability to be able to weld metal up to about 8mm, and I don't think mine will do it properly. I also weld very thin steel - 1mm, and my MIG does this very well too. If I bought, say, a 200-amp MIG (still a Butters), would it be less able to weld thinner steel, or is it more complicated than that?

Les.

[Redhand]

I have at present a Butters 170 MIG, which I'm very happy with performance-wise. However - when I recently made my rear crossmember it was working at it's maximum setting, and the welds were only 'ok'. I'd like to have the ability to be able to weld metal up to about 8mm, and I don't think mine will do it properly. I also weld very thin steel - 1mm, and my MIG does this very well too. If I bought, say, a 200-amp MIG (still a Butters), would it be less able to weld thinner steel, or is it more complicated than that?

Les.

have you tried this forum www.mig-welding.co.uk If you need to know anything about welders or welding this is the forum.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

have you tried this forum www.mig-welding.co.uk If you need to know anything about welders or welding this is the forum.

Les

I don't know the tech term for it, but

On many welders they get the "High" outputs for the welders by doing something to the transformers which has the nasty side effect of making them poor at the lower end and the low settings

Whatever you buy have a good look at the duty cycle AND the outputs for HIGH and LOW settings,

There are some superb bits of Kit out there now, have you a budget in mind ?

For the 200amp stuff, you really do need to look carefully, there are some horrors !

Nige

[mbconfuse]

I agree http://www.mig-welding.co.uk is the site for welding advice.

I recently bought a Butters 181, and its more than capable on the thick stuff but welding anything less than 1.5mm you have to be really careful, it helps to use the technique described here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/thin-metal.htm.

Guys on the welding site will talk about Portamig welders which will do what you are after - both thin and thick stuff.

[Les Henson]

No budget really as long as it's single phase. I do a lot of car body repairs - rusted holes in Ford Escorts, etc, so it's important that I can still do that. I could have two welders I suppose, but I'd rather have one that can do it all.

Les.

[LandyManLuke]

I've got a Portamig 211, which has a range of 20 - 215 A, You'll find most welders that have a higher output will start at the lowest end at 30-35A, which is pushing it for anything thin.

I've welded RR door frames, which IIRC are 1mm, with 0.6mm wire. I've also been welding 1.50mm aluminium sheet with 1mm wire.

The 235 extends the maximum to 235A whilst maintaining 20A minimum

The 255 has 25A as it's minimum setting.

All three welders have 12 voltage settings - which is miles better than the 6 many welders have.

[Wattle]

Les have you thought about getting a stick for the thicker stuff.

Phil

[Steve 90]

I use my welder much the same as yours Les, One day welding a rusty Escort turned right down and the next welding a 10mm winch tray into a landrover. We have an Oxford 170 (the older Green one before the changed colour and also seemed to take a downturn in quality, something about cheaper aluminium coils ive been told) which is brilliant. The 170 amp rating is way under its actual output as it will happily weld 8-10mm all day long equally as well as any 250 and then turn it down to weld a rusty car sill or exhaust with ease.

We recently looked at changing it as it just seemed time to do so. Had a 250 butters on demo for a week and it was only equally as good on the heavy stuff certainly not any better plus after about 3/4 of an hour went off form slightly until left to cool which is something ive never suffered with the oxford. The main issue being it was not so good on the thin stuff, Very difficult to get a decent looking weld and awkward to find a balance between decent penetration and blowing a hole. Also went to do some welding for a friend with the same welder and found the same issue with the welder not liking running turned up for long periods.

At the moment were stuck for finding a replacement. There just does not seem to be a welder out there at the moment which is happy with the thinner stuff and the thicker stuff so we may well end up buying two, A smaller (150??) Butters for the tin work and a larger unit (300+??) for the heavy stuff.

Ive heard good things about Miller, Anyone tried them? Know where I might be able to get one on demo unit for a week??

[Steve 90]

Portamig? Never heard of them but sounds good! Will see if I can find a dealer.

[LandyManLuke]

You won't find him, well you'll probably struggle to!

FWIW, they're made in York, built like brick sh!t houses and have copper transformers. The wire feed motor is the size of a coke can - unlike most cheap chinese welders.

It's worth noting that Mig-tig-Arc sell the same welder under their own 'MTA' brand. Having bought a Portamig off Steve, and used him for mail order consumables, I'll stick with him, customer care like most people have forgotten about.

I'm nothing but a happy customer.

[mike4444244]

Ditto, I have a portamig 181! Steve is very helpful...

Mike

[disco tony]

why dont you try the mma route? get a 180amp inverter which will put down a quality (dc) weld in 10 mm easily. You could also invest in the TIG attachment for some really professional stuff, (this is the only authorised repair technique for Porsche now). You can weld very thin stuff using this method. You could still keep your mig then. A 180 amp mig is only really suited upto about 6mm. Above this, you should really pump up the amps or go mma.

I have a Buutters 180 mig, (old green one), and a cebora 180 amp inverter (with lift arc tig) and oxy acetylene. Mig is not the answer to all welds.

[Steve 90]

why dont you try the mma route? get a 180amp inverter which will put down a quality (dc) weld in 10 mm easily. You could also invest in the TIG attachment for some really professional stuff, (this is the only authorised repair technique for Porsche now). You can weld very thin stuff using this method. You could still keep your mig then. A 180 amp mig is only really suited upto about 6mm. Above this, you should really pump up the amps or go mma.

I have a Buutters 180 mig, (old green one), and a cebora 180 amp inverter (with lift arc tig) and oxy acetylene. Mig is not the answer to all welds.

Not all welders are rated equally tho, one manufacturers 180 amps is very different to another.

[Astro_Al]

Les, how much space do you have?

I have a properly built old school BOC mig which I might let go. 200 Amp at 65%, and 160 Amp at 100%. I believe the minimum amps is 40, but the stitch timer helps with that side of things.

Its not the smallest welder in the world, but it has a stitch / spot timer (0.5 to 3.5 s), good quality reg, newish torch (euro fitting of course), 16 power settings, adjustable burn-back & selectable inductance.

Can be run on 230 or 415, it draws up to 17A on single phase mains.

Weight 152 kg.

Let me know if you're interested.

Al.

[Les Henson]

I should have said that it has to be portable. I can make a trolley, but 152KG is a bit on the large side, thanks anyway Al.

I have other welding gear - small gas welding, full size gas welding, stick Welder, and MIG. I can use the stick welder for bigger stuff, but not welding upside down though - that's a skill that's beyond me to get right.

Les.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

The new toy will allow me to go as low as 25A ............... or as high as 300A .................... but it weighs 104Kg so I wouldn't exactly say its portable ............why not get a f'off big MIG for the heavy stuff and a smaller lightweight jobbie for the the lighter stuff ?

Ian

[lrfarmer]

why dont you try the mma route? get a 180amp inverter which will put down a quality (dc) weld in 10 mm easily. You could also invest in the TIG attachment for some really professional stuff, (this is the only authorised repair technique for Porsche now). You can weld very thin stuff using this method. You could still keep your mig then. A 180 amp mig is only really suited upto about 6mm. Above this, you should really pump up the amps or go mma.

I have a Buutters 180 mig, (old green one), and a cebora 180 amp inverter (with lift arc tig) and oxy acetylene. Mig is not the answer to all welds.

i currently run a 185amp mig, a 250 amp arc and oxy acetylene

i use the mig up to about 4mm(all i do on landy) and lighter farm welding

i use the arc from 3mm-25mm big farm welding

i use the gas for cutting and brazing (use to use for welding but mig is alot quicker)

[Turbocharger]

I "turbo'd" my old 135A Clarke welder after I found my welding getting bittier and bittier after 15mins, but it would miraculously improve after a cuppa. I tried different brands of teabag but the problem remained, although it'd improve more quickly with the side off the welder. I put a couple of 240v fans from a computer power supply into the cover, and now I only need to take teabreaks after an hour of heavy welding.

If your problem is with heat build-up, try taking the side off the welder (or drinking more tea )

[bishbosh]

Will Warne unfortunately cannot get to a computer at the moment so he asked me to post this on his behalf:

Aparently it is a little noisy in use and can only do short runs, but it does go well with a red wine sauce!

[Les Henson]

You can be really common at times Mr Bosh

Les.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Can't seem to find the "User Manual" for this, but how about this rare item (if you can find one)

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...l=warne-o-matic

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

No, I Lie

I have found this special Haynes book of welding - essential reading

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=9917&hl=

Nige