Jon White Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Got any internet links to the Ozzy ones to have a look at for information??? Cheers Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I notice those revolvers cannot be locked/pinned in the closed position, unlike some of the other brands. People over here (in OZ) have found revolvers VERY scary when going down steep hills - since the revolver wants to unload/open at the rear - putting the vehicle on an even worse angle. Hence the reason most of the ones sold here are able to be locked in place for whe you go down steep hills of across side slopes.Now from what I have seen in the UK you guys generall don't drive hills that are as steep (because the ground conditions don't allow it), but it is something to think about. Also, on a SWB the effect might not be as drastic as on a LWB - but it is still something to think about. I was going to suggest a SWB under heavy braking might prefer to have them locked but is this a similar effect to coilers with dislocating springs or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm planning to limit the "drop off" of the axle with a centre limit strap, so it will still be able to droop in articulation but not straight down (hopefully ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was going to suggest a SWB under heavy braking might prefer to have them locked but is this a similar effect to coilers with dislocating springs or something else? i'm planning a different variant on the front springs, if i dont try it then i wont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Got any internet links to the Ozzy ones to have a look at for information??? None made for Land Rovers though. http://www.4wdworld.com.au/newproducts/climax.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was going to suggest a SWB under heavy braking might prefer to have them locked but is this a similar effect to coilers with dislocating springs or something else? A coil-sprung vehicle still has the suspension links in place to stop unwanted movement under braking etc, whereas with leaf suspension, the springs and the links are the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 hmmm, now they're nice, apart from the colour obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Here are some threads discussing revolver-type shackles and their merits (also their legality in Australia, but that does not apply here). http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/...opic.php?t=5787 http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/...pic.php?t=11132 Superior and climax (above) are the 2 main manufacturers of these shackles in OZ. I should add, that many leaf-sprung comp vehicles tried the shackles when they first became available, however very few still use them. Edit, and here is the website for superior shackles: http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/shackles.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Those aren't revolvers, they're just unfolders! The principle behind the Gon2Far kit, both the revolvers and their own mounts, is that when you allow the spring eye to twist, you gain articulation: See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Those aren't revolvers, they're just unfolders!The principle behind the Gon2Far kit, both the revolvers and their own mounts, is that when you allow the spring eye to twist, you gain articulation: See? to me that piccie looks like the "front-mount-end" of the spring is twisted about 20 degrees, while the back portion of the spring where the Revolver is is only twisted a little bit, to me that says your not spreading the load and twisting moment, meaning the front of the springs will fail quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You'll be telling me next that fitting bigger tyres causes early halfshaft failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 well nothing has been said on this thread yet and with most people driving their trucks on the roads to sites, it was worth pointing out that these things could lead to your spring snapping due to fatigue, as your driving down the motorway and wiping out a full coach load of nuns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Those aren't revolvers, they're just unfolders!The principle behind the Gon2Far kit, both the revolvers and their own mounts, is that when you allow the spring eye to twist, you gain articulation: See? I never once comented on the merits of the shackle, other than the fact that they can be locked in place (as a "normal" shackle). Which is desirable/necessary at times. The pivoting of the shackle (when combined with a pivoting mount as you suggest) stops the lateral twisting of the spring as it articulates, which means that the effective spring rate is lowered somewhat (and on the side in extension/droop, lowered even more since the shackle is unfolding). I'm sure it would help give you more travel, especially in a show-off/travel ramp situation, but whether it makes a difference to 4x4 ability is another matter - and whether it causes a lot of adverse handling effects is another matter again. It may increase the fatigue life of the springs though - but probably not since you are replacing less lateral twisting with more flex/arch in the leaves. This is a lot like the coil spring issue. In Australia, very few people run dislocation cones anymore, most people instead run fully retained coils, and have found that while a landie with dislocation cones may get more wheel travel on a travel ramp, it won't be any better offroad, and will actually be less stable (especially on side slopes). Anyone have any pics of a landrover with pivoting mounts front and rear driving on a steep side slope? well nothing has been said on this thread yet and with most people driving their trucks on the roads to sites, it was worth pointing out that these things could lead to your spring snapping due to fatigue, as your driving down the motorway and wiping out a full coach load of nuns How could it lead to springs snapping? Dont forget that land rovers have a "military wrap" second leaf, so if the main leaf fails everything will stay in place. I know plenty of people who have broken main leaves in their springs, and none have caused any safety problems. I once snapped a centre bolt in my front springs and the axle moved back 3" on one side - I didn't even notice when driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 How could it lead to springs snapping? Dont forget that land rovers have a "military wrap" second leaf, so if the main leaf fails everything will stay in place. I know plenty of people who have broken main leaves in their springs, and none have caused any safety problems. I once snapped a centre bolt in my front springs and the axle moved back 3" on one side - I didn't even notice when driving. because the eye at the end only has one wrap, or two at best on more heavier duty springs. That is suffering twice the twist it would get originally as the load is no longer spread to the other eye, which is happily de-stressed by the Revolver. Hence why in the photo above the rear eyelet is to the same axis pretty much as the axle, yet the axle and chassis are at a large angular displacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 because the eye at the end only has one wrap, or two at best on more heavier duty springs. That is suffering twice the twist it would get originally as the load is no longer spread to the other eye, which is happily de-stressed by the Revolver. Hence why in the photo above the rear eyelet is to the same axis pretty much as the axle, yet the axle and chassis are at a large angular displacement ALL Land Rover springs have a secondary "military wrap" eye. The vehicle pictured has a pivoting front mount too, so the springs is the same angle all along - including the front eye - so no extra stresses. I agree that if revolvers were fitted with a standard front mount, then the eye at the front may receive more bendig stress, but I don't think it will have a big effect on the overall lifetime or failure of the springs. Trucks (lorries) break leaf springs every other day, but you don't see a lot of truck accidents because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 ALL Land Rover springs have a secondary "military wrap" eye. The vehicle pictured has a pivoting front mount too, so the springs is the same angle all along - including the front eye - so no extra stresses. I agree that if revolvers were fitted with a standard front mount, then the eye at the front may receive more bendig stress, but I don't think it will have a big effect on the overall lifetime or failure of the springs.Trucks (lorries) break leaf springs every other day, but you don't see a lot of truck accidents because of it. so to achieve this extra pivot at the front, how are they achieving this? as there are no shackles to substitute you would need to cut off the original mountings and substitute them with an assembly that would allow twisting at the front eye. Just that all previous discussion has been about replacing the shackles only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm sure it would help give you more travel, especially in a show-off/travel ramp situation, but whether it makes a difference to 4x4 ability is another matter - and whether it causes a lot of adverse handling effects is another matter again. It may increase the fatigue life of the springs though - but probably not since you are replacing less lateral twisting with more flex/arch in the leaves.Anyone have any pics of a landrover with pivoting mounts front and rear driving on a steep side slope? Those are nigh on 36" tyres. There is no way that one is going to get that kind of travel at the front end of a Series Rover without some kind of extending shackle. There aren't many coil sprung Rovers delivering that kind of front end travel and I believe that it makes a big difference to offroad traction. Adverse handling effects on a Series III is a relative concept. In stock set-up and good tune, a Series III handles pretty well on road and while it may not be fast, steering can be remarkably good and stability on standard LR springs in good shape is excellent - which is why many of us shifted to parabolics. Once the tyres get larger, the springs get more flexy, you start adding power - well, here come the adverse handling effects. I think you are probably right on the issue of spring fatigue. The extra flexing and general punishment created by the revolvers is probably somewhat offset by the revolver easing lateral flex. On the other hand, if you are at the stage of putting revolving shackles on your Series, spring fatigue will be the least of your worries.... When you say "pivoting munts front and rear" I am assuming you mean revolvers on the front and rear axles, not at the front and rear of the same spring? This pretty steep descent turned into a side slope: I don't think the revolvers had anything to do with the result. It was a combination of me taking a bad line when I got into trouble, not caring very much about getting into trouble, slick rock, and a light back end. Honestly, having had the revolvers on for @ 4 years I must say that while in tandem with the other mods they diminish the on-road handling characteristics of the the vehicle, they aren't a major part of it in and of themselves and, if you've reached the stage of putting revolvers on your truck, you really have no right to expect excellent road manners.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Just that all previous discussion has been about replacing the shackles only i dont particularly want to chop my front dumb irons, i like the idea of keeping things standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 i dont particularly want to chop my front dumb irons, i like the idea of keeping things standard would that be a standard Series or a standard Defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Isuzurover - the setup on that 88 doesn't have pivoting front mounts at the other end of the spring, bizzarely Nige found that allowing both ends to pivot didn't make any noticable difference. Edited to add: This is the Gon2Far kit for the front end, the difference is it's lockable although the results are the same if not better than the revolvers: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Those are nigh on 36" tyres. There is no way that one is going to get that kind of travel at the front end of a Series Rover without some kind of extending shackle. There aren't many coil sprung Rovers delivering that kind of front end travel and I believe that it makes a big difference to offroad traction.Adverse handling effects on a Series III is a relative concept. In stock set-up and good tune, a Series III handles pretty well on road and while it may not be fast, steering can be remarkably good and stability on standard LR springs in good shape is excellent - which is why many of us shifted to parabolics. Once the tyres get larger, the springs get more flexy, you start adding power - well, here come the adverse handling effects. I think you are probably right on the issue of spring fatigue. The extra flexing and general punishment created by the revolvers is probably somewhat offset by the revolver easing lateral flex. On the other hand, if you are at the stage of putting revolving shackles on your Series, spring fatigue will be the least of your worries.... When you say "pivoting munts front and rear" I am assuming you mean revolvers on the front and rear axles, not at the front and rear of the same spring? This pretty steep descent turned into a side slope: I don't think the revolvers had anything to do with the result. It was a combination of me taking a bad line when I got into trouble, not caring very much about getting into trouble, slick rock, and a light back end. Honestly, having had the revolvers on for @ 4 years I must say that while in tandem with the other mods they diminish the on-road handling characteristics of the the vehicle, they aren't a major part of it in and of themselves and, if you've reached the stage of putting revolvers on your truck, you really have no right to expect excellent road manners.... Interesting info Richard. You cetrainly do have a lot of front travel. In the last pic, It looks like both revolvers on one side have opened up somewhat? I can't help wondering if having fixed shackles (or locked revolvers) on that side would have minimised how much body lean you got. What are your experiences with driving down steel slopes? or really hard braking? The pivoting mounts I mentioned are what fridgefreezer posted. I was not aware that they don't make much difference with revolvers, but they would make a difference on spring fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I made my own with bits and bobs i had in my junk box. Not as refined as the revolvers but they seem to work with very long shocks. I now removed them as i need a decent set of long shocks, plus the rear was feeling a bit wobbly and i am currently not offroading the landy. Some pics components Mock up Tacked Twisted Paint and testing I put a poly bush in the center of mine and when i tighten it up it locks up, so for them to work correctly i had to keep the bolts loose, not very nice on the road. No rattles or anything else. My concern is that at full compression the spring tend to stess itself out and nearly going into a reverse arch. Bigger bumpstops could stop this. Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Grem, Cool! They look as good as the one's I've got and do the same thing. I'm impressed for one at the fabrication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Grem,Cool! They look as good as the one's I've got and do the same thing. I'm impressed for one at the fabrication. Thanks Grem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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