World's best land rover

[Paddy_SP]

I'd simplify the electrics and make anything that could possibly rust out of stainless...

[nas90]

Must be capable of carrying a 1 tonne Euro pallet in the back (1200x800mm)

Must have decent leg room for 6 footers (nas / 50th Defender is good because the rear bulkhead has gone) and also adjustment for those drivers who are vertically challenged

Must have Ø41mm half shafts and correspondingly large CV's

Must pull 3.5Tonne trailer

Must have locking diffs.

For better fuel economy maybe 2WD and 4WD options

Better aerodynamics at the front than current Defender since fuel consumption will be a bigger problem in future

Absolute minimum of electrics

[A Twig]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say ditch the standard drivetrain.

Introduce electric hub motors for the wheels.

Loads of torque from the word go, and some sort of simple control switch (even as simple as a sliding pentiometer style thing) to direct the power to where the wheels have grip.

They you would only need a small simple diesel/petrol engine to charge up the batterys. The hub motors would also allow regenerative braking (emissions and mpg solved), so for on road use the engine would hardly be needed at all, and it would only be really drawn upon during offroad situations. A more powerful engine would be an option if one was intending to fit winches etc and would need more power.

There would be space for batteries etc as there would now be no transmission tunnel, axle, conventional brakes etc etc and I'm sure it would be too hard to have a modular system, so that in the event of an electric motor failure one can unclip and unbolt it and replace/repair pretty quickly?

No need for heavy diffs and lockers and a massive plethora of underbody protection, just one long skid plate would be required.

I know it's controversial and a giant step away from the Defender but electrics aren't big scary beasties anymore. It's pretty easy to repair and maintain them, especially if the design was a simple modular system, so rather than having to have an immense knowledge of the minute details you can just clip/bolt modules in and out. It would be no different to the massive parts bins a lot of people carry around with them anyway!

[Retroanaconda]

I'd love having to maintain them after being immersed in muddy, gritty, dirty water

[uninformed]

IMO they should be marketing to the big picture, ie: mining, military, police, forestry, agricultral etc, if they can get a strong hold in these markets (worldwide not just the uk) they will have a great on flow of sales.... its worked great for toyota! so they make 1 true commercial 4x4 line up then all the others (freelander, disco and range rover) will sell by association.

to get a strong hold in this market they need to take the good idea that is the defender and actually exicute it with some sort of professionalism, rather than the arrogant half assed carp that flows out the factories now!!!

so in saying that:

keep seperate chassis and body, keep alloy body...BUT figure out what electrolisis is! figure out how to build a body that doesnt leak water and dust like its got its roof off! make the doors on truck cabs 100mm longer. make the cab a bit wider plus track width. bring bake the safri roofs, yes it does get hot in some countries!!! plus it may stop the roof from popping at speeds over walking pace... figure out how to build a decent dash and binical set up.... anything would be better. KEEP THE FRONT VENTS

Axles: should be same front and rear to keep things simple, 9 inch crown wheel, spiral bevel with extra bearing support at end of pinion, 4 pin diff. 30 spline axles standard with the ability to upgrade to 35, lockers optional, NOT ELEC! keep offset to one side like now, must be full floating. improve brakes. make axles as wide as possible and the wheels to have minimal offset.

engines dont just offer one engine cause it suits the euro market, there is the rest of the world to think of, so yes a high tech 2.5lt engine for the euro markets and then mabe a 3.5-4 litre v6 or v8 using the same tech as 30tdi(totally mechanical) but still effeicent... no computers will open the market up in less developed countries.

6 speed maual, KEEP CONSTANT 4WD, this is a very good thing for so many reasons.... transfer case could have snycro, but must be bullet proof.

keep a frame rear and radius arms front, just make all arms a bit longer, like the rears could have been brought forward to the body outrigger which would have saved on extra chassis fitting and brought them up out of the way. reduce the rear antisquat a little. make the steering arms out of steel not cheese......

AND FOR GOD SAKES FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIRE A VEHICLE..... can landrover say relay........

Serg

[q-rover]

I don´t care because I could never afford to buy a new one anyway.

A new Defender costs about £70.000 here.

[steven Hart]

Body some clever all alumium Space frame with a standard front which allow different options to bolted to rear with resemblance to Defender. Which mounting should be part of the design (both front and rear). Roll over need design into the space frame

Suspension need to independent probably double wishbone rather the strut.

Although making possible to 35" tyre keep to 31" as if we all had 35" tyre all that would happen is we would 37" because most of the route we use would 35" tyre ruts rather than 33" tyre ruts they have now

Transmittion

Would probably need something other diso III or other Land-Rover product due the the load capability of the 110's and 130's but probably 5 speed as any more gears would just mean more changes and have no real bennefit.

Diffs jaguar Land-Rover (Dana) E-diff front and rear with switch to permanently lock if needed.

Engine could do with a chose including V6 and V8 diesel (twin turbo version from Jags that is)

From the point of view of the of interior trim keep it basic to make sure the vehicle can still be use for off roading.

exterior trim Heat screen may be a good option keep it basic with metal bumpers like current unless issue with cash.

snorkel and wading beather pipe intrigated into the body and there as standard.

Lighting I think it would be looking into LED systems as they are nearly able to replace current headlights with them.

[Lara]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say ditch the standard drivetrain.

Introduce electric hub motors for the wheels.

Loads of torque from the word go, and some sort of simple control switch (even as simple as a sliding pentiometer style thing) to direct the power to where the wheels have grip.

They you would only need a small simple diesel/petrol engine to charge up the batterys. The hub motors would also allow regenerative braking (emissions and mpg solved), so for on road use the engine would hardly be needed at all, and it would only be really drawn upon during offroad situations. A more powerful engine would be an option if one was intending to fit winches etc and would need more power.

There would be space for batteries etc as there would now be no transmission tunnel, axle, conventional brakes etc etc and I'm sure it would be too hard to have a modular system, so that in the event of an electric motor failure one can unclip and unbolt it and replace/repair pretty quickly?

No need for heavy diffs and lockers and a massive plethora of underbody protection, just one long skid plate would be required.

I know it's controversial and a giant step away from the Defender but electrics aren't big scary beasties anymore. It's pretty easy to repair and maintain them, especially if the design was a simple modular system, so rather than having to have an immense knowledge of the minute details you can just clip/bolt modules in and out. It would be no different to the massive parts bins a lot of people carry around with them anyway!

I like this idea!

We could also have portal type hubs,

And just use a 5th hub motor coupled to a winch, my that would pull

Lara

[jeremy996]

I like this idea!

We could also have portal type hubs,

And just use a 5th hub motor coupled to a winch, my that would pull

Lara

It's a gloriously old idea, Ferdinand Porsche had a car running in 1900 with hub motors, Wikipedia for Porsche, at one point the land speed record was held by a similar vehicle. His later work for the German Army included an enormous gun tractor that used lots of electrically powered hubs for cross country performance, albeit slow!

One small issue with electric motors is that full torque is available almost from standstill, Autocar remarked on the power put down by the new Mini E this week. Would that be an advantage on soft ground?

[old110]

I think the Aussie army and Land Rover got it right with the Perentie.

Galvanised, simple to work on chassis;

Proven, reliable Isuzu turbo diesel (3.9L);

Wider cab/bulkhead, all galvanised which would allow the 'defender elbow' issue to be sorted if kept as a 2 seater cab.

Minimum electronics (electrics are all pretty much field servicable, electronics arent!)

Not sure what they did with axles but the more recent range rover P38/disco 2 axles are pretty good in standard form.

The Perentie's have survived 20yrs abuse in the aussie military and they are having them refurbished to last another 20 as they can't find a cost effective replacement so something must have been right.

I have first hand experience of the investment TATA are putting into their engineering, foundries, facilities etc.

Land Rover has for the last 10yrs min. just bought in most components. the engineering departments had to get those components to work together, they never designed them, nor did they invest in anything more than assembly plants.

I can see TATA keeping the defender as ongoing development and may bring it back to its former glories as the working 4x4 of choice.

[sparg]

I think the Aussie army and Land Rover got it right with the Perentie.

Galvanised, simple to work on chassis;

Proven, reliable Isuzu turbo diesel (3.9L);

Wider cab/bulkhead, all galvanised which would allow the 'defender elbow' issue to be sorted if kept as a 2 seater cab.

Minimum electronics (electrics are all pretty much field servicable, electronics arent!)

Not sure what they did with axles but the more recent range rover P38/disco 2 axles are pretty good in standard form.

The Perentie's have survived 20yrs abuse in the aussie military and they are having them refurbished to last another 20 as they can't find a cost effective replacement so something must have been right.

I have first hand experience of the investment TATA are putting into their engineering, foundries, facilities etc.

Land Rover has for the last 10yrs min. just bought in most components. the engineering departments had to get those components to work together, they never designed them, nor did they invest in anything more than assembly plants.

I can see TATA keeping the defender as ongoing development and may bring it back to its former glories as the working 4x4 of choice.

Yeah - i'm really interested in the idea that Tata might not scrap the defenders after all - it would make as much sense as the Beeching report.

But the reason I started this thread was to ge an idea as to whether the idea of the defender has 'legs' - is it worth thinking of it as an 'open source' project, working through al the mistakes and so on to arrive at a prospective design before the the question comes up. Tata could (if they played their cards rght) have an instant international seller on their hands - ust by learing from past mistakes.

Aternatively, a consortium could buy the assembly line

regards

[Discovan300tdi]

I reckon galvanised chassis and steelwork a proper engine something like the 5.9 Cummins diesel, coil spring suspension, part time 4x4 with hi/lo. A choice of normal or forward control for commercial use, something like ill fated Llama 101 replacement, with a decent load capacity