Placing a roll cage

[yellow]

I had a 'bit of a get-off' last Friday and looking to either to go through the 'rebuild' route or buy a 'good' second hand vehicle and add to that one according to my taste.

I will certainly add a roll cage this time. Looking at the state of the vehicle I think that the chassis is warped as well, hence the potential need for a new chassis.

So my options:

1. Salvage the engine and running gear (Mmmmm V8...) and buy a new chassis/rollcage/panels

2. Buy a second hand vehicle and add a cage to that one

Main questions are:

- When ordering a new chassis, would the company where I order be able to add the cage fixing points?

- Which company is preferred for workmanship regarding chassis and cage. (Price is important, but staying alive even more so)?

- Should I take a full external cage or a Camel Trophy style cage 50% outside and 50% inside?

- Is it easier to build from the axles up, or by a vehicle and add a cage?

- With the added weight of the cage, are there any upgrades I should think of as well (Steering, braking, springs and rollbars)?

I got out OK this time, but never want to have to go through this any more. I was alone in the vehicle but would certainl not have been able to forgive myself if my 3-year old would have been beside me.

[fender1234]

These are a few chassis company i think they would all do the roll cage mounts for you:

http://www.designa-chassis.co.uk/company.asp

http://www.richardschassis.co.uk/

http://www.marslands.com/

Hope everyone was ok in the accident.

[daveturnbull]

How on earth did you end up like that on a straight flat bit of road? Looks nasty... Glad you got out unharmed.

[yellow]

Blow out on the off side front, then ended up in the near side ditch due to 'over correction'

(I drive a UK vehicle in Belgium)

[dantd5]

Oh My God ... Sometimes I feel like I drive a tanker but pictures like these give me the chill down my far-lower-spinal-chord!!

Fella --how on mother Earth did this happen Sweating profusely now!!!

[6cyltdi]

I had a similar incident in my 90 on a flat straight bit of road, not quite as bad as this one though...... Tyre got excited and ran away whilst going to work at 5.30am a friend came up and pulled me back on to my wheels spent ages picking up all my tools and bits and pieces that were scattered everywhere put the spare on and drove it 1/2 a mile home..... Took the scooby to work I had it back on the road that night after I got home though.... New roof doors and windscreen I happened to have sitting around anyway.... There was minimal damage to wings and rear tub and had to pack the bulkhead with some rubbish to stop the wind blowing through......

[dantd5]

The roof to the defender looks like "buscuit".. Looks crispy though......

[sparg]

hmm

several things to think about here. A blowout on a straight road making the vehicle unsteerable - that's alarming. I know vehicles used to be like that (I once rolled an MG metro at 70 this way) - but most are much better behaved now. why should defenders be worse in this respect? - big tyres?

The crushability of the roof - we've seen that a couple of times these last two weeks. The defender is heavy, and when it lands the wrong way up, that bolt-together aluminium structure deforms rather readily.

Do the usual external cages quite provide the protection you'd expect? - it seems to me that with that sort of weight, one would need a stronger cage/rollbar than in an ordinary car. Given that the front pillars/screen don't really offer that much protection, external caging here seems to be the way to go. But behind the driver's head - would an internal bar be stronger than an external one, and should it ideally be diagonally braced?

I must admit, I've come to realise that the heritage of these vehicles is really that of a low-speed farm vehicle, and now they are much faster onroad, they haven't been designed to safety standards remotely like modern ones. The question is whether aftermarket modifications do really make up for some of this shortfall

I find myself driving a bit slower each week!

glad to hear you were OK

[mickeyw]

Gutted to see your pride and joy destroyed in this way, but glad you got out to tell the tale.

[boy]

thats dose look bad mate but at least u got out ok!! couldn't off been nice!!

[western]

good to read you got out OK, sorry to see the 110 had it hard though. but it can be rebuilt to live again.

[gregh55]

ouch as long as your ok

[stravaigin]

Glad you got out OK and sorry to see your defender so trashed! I have protection on both my Defenders for this very reason, the weak aluminium structure of Defenders cannot take even a low/medium speed roll. I would urge everyone who drives a Defender to at least consider some kind of Protection, The NAS 90s and 110s were not fitted with Safety Devices cages without reason, they were not safe enough for the US without them.

In my good Defender I fitted a Protection and Performance internal hoop, this is fitted behind the front seats with bracing down to the rear floor and through onto chassis brackets to the rear crosmember, it has a removable cross brace. The only modification to the vehicle was drilling 4 holes for each foot through the seatboxes where it bolts to the chassis mounting brackets, these in turn bolt to the chassis. I am aware that it is not full protection but hope it would be better than nothing. Its about £400 for some peace of mind.

In my Expedition Defender I have a similar set up but with an external front hoop a la NAS 90 style which goes down to the front chassis outriggers. It bolts though the roof behind the doors onto the internal hoop.

If I was doing a chassis up build I would contact Alistar at Richards chassis, he works closely with Shaun at North Off Road and will put together a chassis with mounting brackets for one of NOR cages.

Protection and Performance were excellent to deal with and the cage was straightforward to fit and well made. They know what they are doing and I would be happy to deal with them again. Richards Chassis and North Off Road also have a great reputation. (I have no connection with any of these companies other than being a happy, repeat customer).

[dirkthe1]

blimey. thats not good!

will the insurance not buy a new one?

i was considering a cage, but its now a definate on the list!

[muddy]

Sorry to see that, i did a similer thing in a 130 not 4 weeks ago, full roll across/down a road and through a drystone wall upside down before coming to a rest on its wheels in a field.

Having looked at my vehicle wich still looks like a landrover apart from everythinf being slighty deformed (and i mean everything) then i would suggest you get a new vehicle.

In my case i was lucky to have a roofrack with mountings above the b and c pillars (all well bent now) and an ifor canopy that together absorbed a lot of the shock but as i was assesing it it truly amazed me at just what was bent and i think you will find the same if you try to save your existing vehicle.

Did anything inside hit you? i was amazed at just where some stuff ended up even tho i have rolled landrovers before.

Just be thankful that your ok and accidents do happen. The 110 is replacable.

Will.

[smo]

Glad to hear you are ok as it looks nasty. However i doubt youll get salvage rights from that mess, itll be a cat B which means that a salvage place can only break for spares, itll never go on the road again and lets face it with no panels, bent chassis and untold other damage you are better off with a second hand replacement.

[tychoS]

In my good Defender I fitted a Protection and Performance internal hoop, this is fitted behind the front seats with bracing down to the rear floor and through onto chassis brackets to the rear crosmember, it has a removable cross brace. The only modification to the vehicle was drilling 4 holes for each foot through the seatboxes where it bolts to the chassis mounting brackets, these in turn bolt to the chassis. I am aware that it is not full protection but hope it would be better than nothing. Its about £400 for some peace of mind.

Do you happen to have pictures of the way the cage is bolted to the chassis?

I happen to live in a country where the powers that be insist that cages be bolted to the chassis according to their own peculiar guidelines, and am searching for a "mass produced" cage that will satisfy this requirement.

[rohtron]

If you email PPCages they have always been helpfull with my enquieries.

[alantd]

Crikey! Glad you're OK.

My 110 is the family transport and you've just made me think I should get a roll cage in there. If anything happened to my boy...

I'm off to P&P's site now.

[sparg]

I'm seriously thinking in terms of an external cage AND an internal hoop - the point is that high vehicles like these turn over more easily and should be correspondingly stronger to cope with that fact.

In respect of how the roll protection is fastened to the chassis - clearly, the mountings will deform on impact; is the chasis area strengthened to cope? - anyone rolled with a cage? - how did things deform? is some diagonal bracing needed? (it's not really there with an external cage unless you have a truck cab)

[smo]

North Offroad are the dogs dangleys for quality cages.

[Marks 110]

North Offroad are the dogs dangleys for quality cages.

Glad you're ok.

I think I'll look into getting myself a cage!

We normally take the landy to France in the summer loaded up with 4 canoes on the roof which makes it top heavy and a rollover much more likely. Dread to think of the outcome on a twisty Pyranean descent.

mark

[dantd5]

hmm

several things to think about here. A blowout on a straight road making the vehicle unsteerable - that's alarming. I know vehicles used to be like that (I once rolled an MG metro at 70 this way) - but most are much better behaved now. why should defenders be worse in this respect? - big tyres?

The crushability of the roof - we've seen that a couple of times these last two weeks. The defender is heavy, and when it lands the wrong way up, that bolt-together aluminium structure deforms rather readily.

Do the usual external cages quite provide the protection you'd expect? - it seems to me that with that sort of weight, one would need a stronger cage/rollbar than in an ordinary car. Given that the front pillars/screen don't really offer that much protection, external caging here seems to be the way to go. But behind the driver's head - would an internal bar be stronger than an external one, and should it ideally be diagonally braced?

I must admit, I've come to realise that the heritage of these vehicles is really that of a low-speed farm vehicle, and now they are much faster onroad, they haven't been designed to safety standards remotely like modern ones. The question is whether aftermarket modifications do really make up for some of this shortfall

I find myself driving a bit slower each week!

glad to hear you were OK

We are glad you are alive Yellow. I must admit I am quite doubtful even about roller cages. Can those bars take a 3.5 tonne car like the defender? I am wondering why Land Rover is not building cages as a safety precaution? I guess we would never have been able to buy land rovers if built them. I think roller Cage is Nr 1 on my list!!

[Anderzander]

They are sobering pictures

Just how likely is a 90 or 110 to roll over?

I've had some big slides on the recent ice and felt like I was prone to end up on my side - but wasn't sure if it was just because of the body roll and being so high up and it was a bit of an illusion?

looking at those pics, especially on a flat road is worrying.

Yellow,

How fast were you going when the blow out happened?

[mickeyw]

There seem to be a lot of rolling Landrover stories going around at the moment. I seem to remember the days when the good old Zuk SJ got a reputation for falling over too.

On the whole the Defender is a fairly stable vehicle, but not when compared with a normal car.

Whilst I accept that many genuinely unavoidable accidents do happen and often incur some horrible results, I think that as Landrover (and 4x4) drivers it is up to us to understand the limitations of the vehicles we drive and adjust our style accordingly.

With body and suspension lifts becoming ever more popular the dynamics of our favourite rides are getting worse and worse. It's ironic that a cage can also make this situation worse at the same time as hopefully protecting the vehicle occupants.

I make no claims about being am especially safe driver, and over the 14 years I have had my 90 I've had some dubious loads on or behind it and done some stupid things too. Some have been potentially unsafe, and some just plain illegal. I have always continued what I was doing, but borne in mind the possible dangers involved and made the best efforts to avoid trouble.

I remember once having four timber railway sleepers on a Brownchurch rack on top. This would have been way over the safe roof load for the 90 and horribly unstable, but remembering to take the corners at a sensible speed is what has resulted in me and my truck still being together.

In the recent years where the 4x4 has become the trendy mode of transport, many 'ordinary' car drivers have switched to a 4x4 and expected to drive them exactly the same as their fast saloon car. This is an example of inexperience partially combined with ignorance and has resulted in many an accident.

The only answer is to understand your own and your vehicles known limits and stay within them, oh and a large helping of good luck too.

Just my 2p.