Ben Womersley Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Hi Guys, I have just purchased a 24V diesel heater for my 12V Defender (it only cost £60 rather than hundreds for a 12V), I was wondering if anybody knows how I would be best going about wiring it (cost effectively!)? Its a Eberspacher D1LC, and I know they are difficult to convert to 12V. They require 10A for the 1st minute then 1A afterwards. I have come up with a few options: 1) I have a mains 700W Inverter in the car, so I know its not the most efficient method but I could convert to 240V, then tr1)ansform to 24V, but finding a transformer with a 10A 24V DC output would be quite hard. 2) Could I put a small (7aH) 12V lead acid in series with the main car battery, running the heater over the 2 batteries, then use a split charge system to keep the small battery topped up? I have been advised not to put 2 non similar batteries in series and I dont want to risk damage to the alternator. 3) Other option would be to buy 2 12V lead acid batteries for the heater, but then I would need to either: 1) charge them seperately at 12V with a 3 way split charger, 2) charge at 24V using either a cheap DC to DC voltage doubler for £20 (max 2A current) or 3) get a mains 24V battery charge and run it from the inverter. other options are welcomed, im fed up of having a freezing car! Thanks, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 You could find a cheap 24V alternator and 2 small 12V batteries, and run the whole thing as a seperate system. You wouldn't need a big output on the 24V alternator, so I would have thought you could pick up a truck one fairly cheaply? Just an idea Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltwt1981 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've got a 12 volt to various up to 24 volt converter to run my laptop etc. at 18 volts. Got it from Maplins, you need to know your power requirement but it may work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I have the same heater in my 110 ex mil. It's easy for me though as I have a 24v alternator as well as a 12v system Looking through your listed options I would say that it is cheaper to flog it and buy a used 12v unit of the bay of E (buyer beware). You will probably need to get it serviced or repaired as the majority of 12v units are sold for a reason (incomplete/faulty). a better option might be a webasto thermotop c for block heating. These are similar (diesel powered) and not as expensive and fitted to a range of cars. They warm the coolant which then allows you to run your fan staight away to de-ice and start easier. all your other options require purchasing extra bits at considerable cost and extra complication. simplest is a couple of used UPS batteries 12v 38ah, or small 12 car batts linked in series. then a 12/24v gell charger. £100 in total beware though if your heater stops due to power outage or strangeness it might mess the control unit up which may require a dealer reset or for maximum expense get a dc 12 to 24v charger/inverter from http://www.sterling-power.com/products-battbatt.htm remember you will need around 50A input for 20A out. not sure of price. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West4x4 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 A guy on OLLR installed one in his 12v series link here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 A guy on OLLR installed one in his 12v series linkhere from what I can make out it didn't turn up at the end of the thread. I would be very surprised if it only drew 1A on startup. So with no proved installation as such it's a bit pie in the sky. a bit like a storybook (haynes manual) My eberspacher uses 15-20A@24v to warm glowplug for 30 seconds before sustainable diesel combustion takes place. On shutdown or thermostat cut out it does the same again to make sure all diesel has gone/relight. it might only draw 1A when running to power the fan and the fuel pump but more likely 3A. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Never seen one of these so sorry if it's rubbish, but could you fit a 12v Glow plug system to the heater which runs off the main battery, then have a 24v converter to run the electronics of the thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've looked at this exact same thing having recently bought a cheap pair of 24v eberspachers and the verdict is very much that it's far more expense & hassle than it's worth to convert 12v to 24v in a way that can provide the sustained 20A+ the units need to start up. Edited to add: I've just read the linked thread and I rather suspect the guy's in for disappointment when his heater finally turns up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Surely it can be done quite easily with a split charge and second battery? If you've got a spare battery lying around then it will just be the cost of the split charger to charge the second battery. I might have missed something? I'm really considering getting one of these heaters and at £60 it's the sort of price I don't mind paying. The series has got a 12v lorry battery to run it, and I have a spare in the garage so, if I mount that in the back. It should give enough umph to keep the heater running at 24v for a month or so, then once a month I could run the trickle charger lead out to the spare battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 How would a split charge unit make 24v from 12v then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Wouldn't a big dtdp switch on the aux battery wires do the job? That way when you switch off and leave the vehicle, you flick the switch over, which leaves the system ready to work at 24v. You wake up next day press remote half an hour before you go out, then go out start up drive etc - when you think you need charging put not heater flick the switch back to give 12v connected to the split charge. I must stress, I've only thought about this for a short amount of time and may be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It would work, yes - you've got to hope it's break-before-make though and stick a good fuse on both sides of the switch. Only problem then is how to power the heater for any length of time - if it's charging it can't be heating, if the engine's off it can't be charging, and unless the battery is big the low voltage shutoff will kick in on the heater pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Just flick the switch very quickly My theory was with the big batteries I have got they are 100+Ah (can't remember exactly) the 20A startup current is relatively small compared to starting a vehicle and will only be for 20-30 seconds, so it won't use much really. Then a constant running at 1A should give a good proportion of the 100 theoretical hours. Not sure if it would last any longer with the fact you've got the other battery as well? I presume two 12v batteries at 100ah each will give 24v at 100ah, but it's just whether it makes a difference with one being remplenished? My guess is probably not. My plan was to use the heater to pre-heat rather than to heat whilst running but I guess it would be nice to use it whilst running as well. Good to get a bit of input, not sure how to go really but can't justify the cost of a 12v system at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 This device device is designed to run a 24v motor from a twin battery 12v setup. Up to 85A output so no problems there. I can't see why it wouldn't work. $100 US, while not cheap it is less than a 12v night heater and they ship internationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Womersley Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think I might run the heater separately to the cars electronics, they are temperamental enough without me messing with them. 2 UPS batteries and a voltage doubler to charge them should do it. I should be able to find some used batteries for £30 and a kemo M029 voltage doubler is about £20. Its more money, but it will be able to charge when the engine is running, not drain the main battery and with 20 ish amp hour batteries have enough power to run for a few nights while 'comfort' camping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Not wishing to sound grumpy and cynical, but exactly how much do you guys think 12V heaters cost? I just bought a 12v D2LC for ~£150 from a forumer. I can't work out how ~£80 for a 24v heater, plus ~£50+ worth of dicking about an extra wiring and batteries is such an attractive option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Not wishing to sound grumpy and cynical, but ... grumpy and cynical? Never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Not wishing to sound grumpy and cynical, but exactly how much do you guys think 12V heaters cost? I just bought a 12v D2LC for ~£150 from a forumer. I can't work out how ~£80 for a 24v heater, plus ~£50+ worth of dicking about an extra wiring and batteries is such an attractive option? You're probably right, but it's the Land Rover way to bodge something in! I would prefer a 12v, but all the ones I have seen have been more than £150. I also have spare batteries so it's just the dicking about. I'm probably too far into winter now - and can probably manage through and it can wait till next year. Are they any cheaper in the summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Womersley Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 Not wishing to sound grumpy and cynical, but exactly how much do you guys think 12V heaters cost? I just bought a 12v D2LC for ~£150 from a forumer. I can't work out how ~£80 for a 24v heater, plus ~£50+ worth of dicking about an extra wiring and batteries is such an attractive option? When you put it like that... Everything I seem to do starts out being the cheap option and in the end costs more than if I had done it properly in the 1st place. To be fair to my bodging side though, im watching numerous 12V heaters on the E jumble sale and they are all on the wrong side of £200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 ................ im watching numerous 12V heaters on the E jumble sale and they are all on the wrong side of £200. Have a look at webasto thermotop C as above. they are cheaper and may suit your application better if you can get all the parts. £ starting at 99p the rarely go above £100. They work on the coolant system so warm your engine block and coolant so you can switch your heater straight on to demist after starting your engine. 1. heater module (various car) 2. pipework, exhaust and intake pipes, fuel pickup pipe, cooling system break in and out. 3. in line webasto pulse fuel pump. 4. control box and or timer and loom. if you are handy with adapting and making brackets and pipework then this is your cheapest option IMHO. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Have a look at webasto thermotop C as above. several hundred quid on ebay at the mo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 several hundred quid on ebay at the mo... I should have kept that info quiet then DOH! must be a coincidence have noticed that most with 2 days left to run are over £120 pounds, they weren't selling for anything like this a couple of weeks back, must be the cold weather. I paid £72 for my 24v D1LC off ebay and was a bit of a basket case as the wrong controller was sold with it. After a service and a reset which cost another £70 in Cov, it has worked without flaws since. So totalled up £142 not bad as the new kits sell for £850-£1k. might be best to leave it till the summer, when everyone else is after air con units. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 My thermo 300 24v cost me £3 (yes three pounds). It would be a bit OTT for a Land Rover as it puts out 30kw of heat. I use it for heating my Unit! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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