Defender 300TDi or TD5

[reads90]

Ok replacing the 300Tdi Disco and been looking at an early 2000 ish TD5 defender 110.

But just seen a good value 1999 300TDi with all the bits needed for touring. Which i would need to put on a truck i bought anyway. Like ARB Bull bar , winch, snorkle, Lights, full length TJM roof rack, dual batteries, UHF radio, Dual fuel tanks, rear storage draw, full tinted window, child restrant bar (which is handy as i have a 5 month old), Air con

The question is as this truck will be used for touring and holidays around Australia, is a 300TDi better than a TD5 with all its electronics ( and before you aks the 300TDI's in Aus never had the electronic bits on them that they did later on, on the UK ones). Bear in mind the 1999 300TDI with all the bits is worth $8000 less than a 2000 TD5 without any bits on it .

Bit torn as which one to buy. Never owned or driven (for a long time) a TD5 so that could be a disadvantage or an advantage . But have had loads of 300 TDi's.

I have always pretty much serviced my own trucks and i am thinking this would be easer with the 300TDi than the TD5. The car is for the misses to drive to work (as i have a company car) and as a family car for us to go on holiday in. Won't do a huge amount of milage. But misses wants a 110 and does not like her disco and wants a defender. And there is almost no rust on cars in Aus compaired to the Uk this 300 Tdi has the same amount of rust i have seen on a year old 110 in the uk .

So what do you recon am i going back too far and should i just get with the times and get a TD5. . Or is the fix with a chisel and hammer 300 Tdi the way to go for touring

Cheers

Ali

[Turbocharger]

The Td5 is more powerful, easier (quicker) to tune and will probably give slightly better consumption if you drive it sensibly. I say, if you can live with the "lack" of power of the 300 and you don't want the 'as standard' toys on the car like active cornering etc then take the older, simpler vehicle.

[smo]

In any normal situation id take the TD5 over the 300tdi, as said above better powered, easier tuned and much much nicer to drive, however for the saving of 8K + accessories and the early TD5's not being as good as the later ones i'd probably opt for the 300tdi.

This is the only time i will ever recommend a 300 over a TD5 though!

[JimAttrill]

I think all TD5s are horrible to drive - you either have not enough power or too much. This results in a sort of stop/go pitching motion. Worst with a 90, you just about need a neck brace after 5 mins.

Best TD5s are the Disco autos which are quite smooth to drive. Unfortunately you get overtaken by milk floats and bicycles

[white90]

The 300 with all the gear would seem the better choice, but the TD5 we had was a very nice engine, drove nicely

the suspension was to hard though and this made the car uncomfortable.

as for road side repairs

if you took the known small items on TD5s with you what else could/would you repair on a 300TDi

TD5 no cam belt to worry you.

[leeds]

Cost difference between the 300TDi and the TD5 is 8kA$. Add on the costs of winch, dual batteries etc on to the TD5 you could easily spend another 10k$. So price difference could be 18,000$+

What is difference in mileage/km on vehicles?

IF the mileage between the 300 TDi and the TD5 is similar I would be tempted to go for the 300 TDi. The downside of that 300TDi is that if it is so well equipped it has presumably been well used if not abused. So a careful examination of drive train/suspension etc would be called for. It is possible that some of the savings on the lower price could be consumed in repairs.

Is the 110 set up thye way that you would set it up??

Personally I would be tempted to sell the roof rack as I am not a fan of them as far too many people overload them

Having just done 25,000 miles touring Oz in a 1996 300TDi I can happily recommend a 300 TDi. I never felt that the 300 TDi lacked power which is a complaint I have heard of whilst touring Oz. Personally I think a lot of Aussies take far too much gear with them when they go touring. and hence need more powerful engines.

Regards

Brendan

[white90]

Brendan did you ship yours out then fly out?

[leeds]

Brendan did you ship yours out then fly out?

Yes Tony. Got back to UK on Saturday.

If you want to read about my trip have a look here http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/forum/...404&start=0

Was a great trip and I would recommend Australia for a great overland travelling experience to anyone.

Regards

Brendan

[white90]

Cheers Brendan

off to have look

[leeds]

Cheers Brendan

off to have look

Be warned, make yourself comfortable, get the coffees/beers to hand as it may take some time to plough through it all!

Sorry for getting slightly O/T Ali

Regards

Brendan

[reads90]

Cost difference between the 300TDi and the TD5 is 8kA$. Add on the costs of winch, dual batteries etc on to the TD5 you could easily spend another 10k$. So price difference could be 18,000$+

What is difference in mileage/km on vehicles?

IF the mileage between the 300 TDi and the TD5 is similar I would be tempted to go for the 300 TDi. The downside of that 300TDi is that if it is so well equipped it has presumably been well used if not abused. So a careful examination of drive train/suspension etc would be called for. It is possible that some of the savings on the lower price could be consumed in repairs.

Is the 110 set up thye way that you would set it up??

Personally I would be tempted to sell the roof rack as I am not a fan of them as far too many people overload them

Having just done 25,000 miles touring Oz in a 1996 300TDi I can happily recommend a 300 TDi. I never felt that the 300 TDi lacked power which is a complaint I have heard of whilst touring Oz. Personally I think a lot of Aussies take far too much gear with them when they go touring. and hence need more powerful engines.

Regards

Brendan

Cheers for all your replies

Brendon

Firstly The truck is set up the way i would want it , and comes from country west NSW so really tidy with no rust.

I agreee with you i am not a fan of Roof racks. I have an ARB one for the Disco but only bought i because it fell into my lap cheap, but have had it 2 years and never used it .

But i would properley take it off and strap it to the roof in the garage incase i needed it some day

I also agree with what you say about the aussie complain about the speed of the 300 Tdi. They go on about doing 110 K's in them .But when my 90 was in the Uk it was doing 140 (80mph) down the motorway all the time. Can't really understand what they are on about most of the time . and they call us wingers

As you would propberly agree Aus is a big remote place (alot more remote than most people in the Uk can even imagein), and i don't think i can bring myself to take a TD5 with its electric gismos out to the far outback. My plan is to going touring around Aus on holidays and take my son as he grows up to all the wonderful places around Aus. Hence why i always want a truck ready to go and travel and why we still have our camper trailer.

Ali

[white90]

Ali

I think you've answered it yourself then

The 300 ready to go would seem spot on.

[reads90]

Ali

I think you've answered it yourself then

The 300 ready to go would seem spot on.

mmm i thnik your right Tony, i have

[leeds]

As you would propberly agree Aus is a big remote place (alot more remote than most people in the Uk can even imagein), and i don't think i can bring myself to take a TD5 with its electric gismos out to the far outback. My plan is to going touring around Aus on holidays and take my son as he grows up to all the wonderful places around Aus. Hence why i always want a truck ready to go and travel and why we still have our camper trailer.

Ali

Yes it is a big remote place which is part of its fascination. The need for a well prep and reliable vehicle in Australia is more paramount then what is required for travelling in mainland Europe. Once had to travel 1500 miles to find a replacement UJ in Australia! In Europe that sort of distance would take you from one side to the other

Am sure that your son will enjoy his forays into the outback.

Regards

Brendan.

[steve_a]

There is nanocom for the TD5? That would at least allow diagnosis of issues, it is only really the engine on the TD5s that is gizmofied isn't it?

As said, if you have standard spares as you would for the 300 anyway, then there *might* not be much difference, if an injector for the 300 goes down then could you repair at the nearest township? If you had nanocom would you be in the same situation, i.e. when the spare injector comes you can fit it and fix.

I've binned the idea of using the D2 V8 for any trips out, the ABS/ETC/HDC plays up too much, so I *need* the centre diff lock fitted. But that still leaves a lot of electrics on the car, and I just don't feel happy about it.

I would *not* tour without something like nanocom with the TD5 in case of issues, but after that isn't it the same as any post 1999 4x4 with lots of complexity. All said, I'd probably still go for the 300

[leeds]

I've binned the idea of using the D2 V8 for any trips out, the ABS/ETC/HDC plays up too much, so I *need* the centre diff lock fitted. But that still leaves a lot of electrics on the car, and I just don't feel happy about it.

Hi Steve, not sure from the above whether you have a centre diff fitted or not. When we bought a D2 it did not have a CDL fitted but it was a straight forward retro fit as all it needed was the linkage kit being fitted. It depends on what box was fitted to the D2

Regards

Brendan

[steve_a]

Yep Brendan,

checked and pretty sure the spigot is on the diff assembly, not a lot of access without dismantling the interior though, so have to be sure I want to do the work.

Problem is all my tools are in the UK, apparently they might be sent in about 2-3 weeks. Then 10 weeks shipping. Then 4 weeks customs. I reckon I might have a decent collection of tools by about April 09.

Having said that, the list of other electronic controlled items is worrying:

- gearbox is electronic control isn't it? Does it have a robust fall back mode?

- ACE is fitted, I assume it fails safe? But have heard that if it goes to a red failure light then you really shouldn't drive it.

- SRS, already fiddled with seatbelt pre-tensioners (the search on the forum does work sometimes!)

- ABS/HDC/ETC, with diff lock these add, with out they are all I got (and that means I don't have squat at the moment!)

- Alarm, need to spend out another $300 or so for a second key fob so I can be sure I can get in and run it, the EKA code is not known to me (another time to visit the dealer I guess)

- Engine, I guess a standard OBDII reader would do for this.

To me that list is too long with too many what ifs.

Going back on topic, the 110 TD5 just has the engine under control, perhaps an alarm but the rest is all simple stuff. I can't even look at a TD5 disco as that would be back to most of those worries above.

Trade offs between comfort - reliability - fixability - power for a choice of car out here, starting to get an idea of how big everything is, the UK is really feeling small and cosy to me at the moment, though it could still be a bit of 'culture shock'

[leeds]

Hi Steve,

Firstly I do not pretend to be a mechanic, so check anything I say carefully when it comes to this area.

Our 2000 TD5 is basic spec so does not have all the bells and dangly bits.

I believe that acces for the linkage for the CDL was done via the rubber gaitor where the gear lever is. Was a fiddly job but straightforward

ABS/HDC/ETC sensors can be a PIA but all fail to safe so no major problem. Can not comment on the other electronic gizmos

Yorkshire Jon who joined me for a month in Oz is quite happy to take his 110 TD5 out to outback. He stated that there was two things which could stop a TD5 dead. One was the crank position sensor and I can not remember what the other was.

Personally I would go for minimal electronics/gizmos as the outback knocks hellout of a vehicle. Yes a disco is more comfortable then a 110 BUT that does not make a 110 so uncomfortable that it is a no goer. Main key to any overland trip is two things. Maintainence and Preparation. I personally would not do any decent overland trip until I had owned the vehicle a reasonable time and had done a few smaller trips to iron out snags. People who go and do decent length trips in a newly acquired vehicle are pushing the boat out as far as I am concerned.

Carrying a decent selection of spares is vital even if you are not mechanically minded like myself. The best mechanic in the world can not fixed a problem correctly without the right components to hand.

OK wandering completely O/T. Steve if you are in Adelaide contact Spudboy via www.aulro.com. He is based about 20km from central Adelaide. A very helpful guy. Also Michael2 on AULRO is based in Melbourne and is a good guy also. If you contact them say hi from me.

Regards

Brendan

[reads90]

Well made up my mind and bought the 300Tdi 110

Cheers for all you help

Ali

[JimAttrill]

ABS/HDC/ETC sensors can be a PIA but all fail to safe so no major problem. Can not comment on the other electronic gizmos

Brendan

'fail to safe' - Hmmmmmm yes they fail to not working at all and the systems are interdependent so therefore one sensor failure means you have no ETC and therefore 4x1 drive. This is why it is so important on a Disco to enable the CDL somehow if you are going into the bundu othewise you may have to come all the way out on the back of a truck.

Preaching to the converted as you have converted yours, but others should be aware that ETC is not something you can rely on. And if it does work, you should carry a full set of brake pads if you head for the bush.

Personally, I don't think LR should be able to use the 'tread lightly' sales pitch while selling vehicles with ETC which relies on heavy wheelspin to work. In the UK you just get a bit of mud thrown around, but if you have seen a Defender going up a steep dry slope with small rocks and sand you will know what I mean. The same vehicle with no ETC and diff locks will go up with the driver walking alongside relying on the TD5 anti-stall and the diff locks. (CDL and a Detroit in the demonstration I saw).

[reads90]

Thanks all for your imput

Well Here is my new toy. Will keep the other defender company in the garage

I went for the 300 Tdi i saw instead of the TD5 . Pretty much one of the last 110 300Tdi As it is a 1999 300Tdi

[white90]

Nice set in the Stable there Ali,

And The weather

[landroversforever]

What a pair of beauties

[darthdicky]

Nice new toy Ali! Wish I could have used one of them to get around, saw so many interesting 4x4 tracks that you just can't do in a campervan!

Brendan, just been looking at your write up of your trip and notice that you went to watch the OBC? Was it worth going to see? I'm going to be in NZ for upto a year and I'm considering coming back here for it if it's worth it?

Cheers,

Richard

[ashtray]

see i work on mercs everyday, they are extremely complicated vehicles, but i could quite easily sort out a small (albeit not cheap) spare parts list to take with me if i was taking it any distance. namely crank sensor, air mass sensor, o2 sensors, camshaft sensors. its really only sensors that fail on mercs, nothing really serious. only seen a couple of water pumps fail, never replaced a thermostat. done one head gasket, this is over 4 years btw. i can imagine the td5 being mechanically just as reliable as a 300tdi, but the 300tdi would win on simplicity, price and availability of parts. if i were to take a td5 on a long overland trip then i would definately take a nanocom type device. id prefer something like a snap-on fault code reader but they are v.pricey. i dont think you can go too far wrong with a td5, u just need to be prepared for any electrical failures. thats all i see now at work is electrical failures. they are never too much of an issue providing you have a reasonable understanding of the vehicle. my next landy is going to be a td5, i like the 300tdi, but id like the extra oomph. i know im going to pay a premium for this but its also for age aswell. 300 tdis are over 10 years old now, so finding a low mileage one isnt as easy, and also being older means more dreaded rust!!