treebloke Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I think we have all missed the point a little bit. I know ramblers, horse riders, mountain bikers, quad riders and trial bike riders, land owners and every man and his dog all get annoyed at what we do and 'visa versa'. Because of their attitude towards us we do not like them but its not enitrely all their fault, before you start looking for length of rope and a tall tree, let me explain. Its not all of them and its not all of us who are the problem. I know people who belong to all groups of the above, they are like you and me, honestly. Every single Highways Dept and local authority are given a budget to spend how they will on highway and rights of way maintenance. The amount may vary but there is money available and has been for many many years. The guy who was driving the lane at the beggining of this thread or anyone else for that matter should have been driving a lane which was suitable for its purpose which is the movement of vehicular traffic (we are talking byways) from its begginging to its end over a suitable surface and the local authority should have maintained it to that suitable standard. Because the lanes are not maintained we get into the tit for tat way of life, they try to make it awkward for us and we end up getting annoyed with them to the point you want to knock their bobble hat off and splash mud up their red socks. In Shropshire, south and north Wales we (CRAG) have a working relationship the the Rights of Way, like the guy said in the earlier post, we supply tools and manpower along with equipment such as mini diggers, Unimogs, dumpers, chainsaw operators, brushwood chippers. This means the Shropshire annual budget goes a lot further and more lanes get repaired. Fortunately, we have several contractors who chip in but it works well and after a few years things are coming together. Several lanes which would have been TRO'd are now open and will remain so. There is still a lot of work to do but we are catching up slowly. Perhaps we have set a precedent, if you are interested look at the CRAG website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titan Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 an unwinable argument i think i get alot of my off roading done through the army i thought i would go out today and try a few in the sudbury/berry st edmons area loaded the wife and kids in and in 6hrs i was met by a never ending supply of restricted by way no motorised vehciles so apart from my vists to the training areas in my own disco and pay and play days i probbly wont bother again, still did get the wife talking about buying a patch of land for playing on, the lanes that where closed all had fresh tracks on them from vehciles and most in very good condition compared to some routes i know in the yorkshire dales but there you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Whilst i applaud CRAG and their efforts it hardly makes a dent in the overall scheme of things. Sorry but you wont find me shoveling ****e I've paid the council to do. If they've run out of funds, tough, the roads bad, deal with it. I still think the whole maintenance thing is a red herring. When I started greenlaning on a motorbike, nearly all the lanes round here were overgrown, waterlogged and you could barely walk through the mud in winter. NO ONE COMPLAINED. Then as 4x4s started to become popular the lanes got opened up, walkers and horse riders who'd previously put up with it or avoided the lanes now started to moan. Most of those lanes are now well drained, well surfaced....and closed. Go figure. Routes I've driven in Wales for years and never seen another vehicle let alone a walker are now closed, Why? Treebloke, you said "I know people who belong to all groups of the above, they are like you and me, honestly." No they're not, not like me anyway. I'm not such a selfish, small minded bigot that i have to complain and campaign against people doing things legally that i may dislike, but could easily ignore or avoid. Just go out and drive, they'll all be gone soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 organising maintanence groups and liaising with the local authorities does not work in many areas. In wakefield, we had over 80km of unsurfaced rights of way before the nerc bill removed all by 5kms to restricted byways! What we did before nerc was introduced was try to pursuade the council to allow us to repair and upgrade some of the nicer lanes on their behalf - for FREE!!! - so that they would upgrade them back to byways again so they didnt get shut down/downgraded and lose vehicular access. Do you want to know what their responce was? "No, you cant do anything on the lanes in question. If you are found doing anything on those lanes - even emptying a sack of gravel into a hole - we will charge you with criminal damage." Yup - honest to gods truth. They considered private residents working on a greenlane to keep it open as the same as a bunch of residents trying to resurface any of the main roads in the district. To the council there is no distinguishment between a ucr, boat, residential street, major main road or motorway in terms of maintanence. If you are not a council employee or subcontractor and are found doing anything on the 'roads', then you will be charged with criminal damage. Sad state of affairs. So now wakefield district (which is a big triangular district stretching from M62 / M1 / A1 down to barnsley) has 5km of legal unsurfaced roads...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 In Shropshire, south and north Wales we (CRAG) have a working relationship the the Rights of Way, like the guy said in the earlier post, we supply tools and manpower along with equipment such as mini diggers, Unimogs, dumpers, chainsaw operators, brushwood chippers. This means the Shropshire annual budget goes a lot further and more lanes get repaired. It is naive to think that this sort of thing can be rolled out across the country. The majority of councils simply aren't interested in volunteer repair schemes. They are only interested in removing vehicular rights and, as such, a badly damaged lane is a good thing because they can then claim all the damage is down to 4x4s and close the lane for good. Council members aren't shy about this position. I've had YDNP council members lie to my face over lane closures and not even bother denying they lied at a later date because they simply don't believe 4x4 users have a valid voice. As for the whole GLASS/CRAG thing, I really have no time for either organisation as neither of them have proved to be effective apart from when they are threatening each other with legal action. LARA and TRF are the only organisations that have any clue what they are doing at the moment and neither are given the credit they deserve by the 4x4 community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakewell Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 god its a mine field out there, i never knew it was that bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzie1989 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Over the pond in the good ol' U S of A, they have a sponsorship system for many of their trails. Be cool if something similar could be made to work here in Blighty, I'd happily contribute even though I already pay Road Tax. GLASS are doing a lengthsman scheme where you can 'adopt a lane' to look after it, partake in maintenance and drive the lane a few times a year to make sure all is ok. You would also be required to do a litter pick along the lane at least twice a year! If we all did this maybe the anti 4x4 couldn't say anything as we'd be repairing and looking after the lane for them... as well as picking up their litter for them! What more could they want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestgrump Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 How about a mass land rover demonstration in support of Green Lanes ? A sizeable number of owners just to give a visible show. Wouldn't want to cause any disruption so would be best to keep it out of the major cities, also best to stick to a weekend so the working week isn't messed about with. I'd say a quiet Sunday evening on a stretch of the M1 maybe up around J15, would be nice if the weather was good, so how about mid July, perhaps the 19th ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What more could they want Us not to be there at all. What we need is the media behind us, which with the people at the top in the Ramblers Association (eg. Street-Porter) is extremely unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonko007 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Like someone said, lets have a mass demo on the M6, as everyone can get to it, its a main motorway and i can guarantee we will get press! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 i can just see the headlines now... "Murderous 4x4 drivers bring travel chaos to M6 in a bid to open up more of our lovely countryside to hooligan offroading and pollution" or "4x4 drivers callously bring M6 to a standstill to highlight their plight of losing 'mud plugging' lanes. And they'll murder you too!" or "M6 closed due to 4x4 drivers who are protesting that they cant run over badgers and other animals offroad in the yorkshire dales!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 i can just see the headlines now..."Murderous 4x4 drivers bring travel chaos to M6 in a bid to open up more of our lovely countryside to hooligan offroading and pollution" or "4x4 drivers callously bring M6 to a standstill to highlight their plight of losing 'mud plugging' lanes. And they'll murder you too!" or "M6 closed due to 4x4 drivers who are protesting that they cant run over badgers and other animals offroad in the yorkshire dales!" it'll be more like; "Fluffy Bunny Killing Polluters choke M6 to Death in School Run Chaos" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 i think the point i'm trying make is that unless you have public opinion and the press on your side - doing a publicity stunt to raise awareness is counter productive. just look at the anti-war muslim protestors last week at that army homecoming march - they got villified and almost lynched due to their stunt. Right or wrong, i aint commenting on the legality of our actions in iraq etc... but it goes to show that unless you have public support any publicity stunt will do more damage than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I will be attending the Shropshire Byways User Group meeting next wed, 25th March on behalf of CRAG, if anyone has any issues with rights of way in Shropshire if you let me know it can be put onto the agenda of the meeting. The meetings are every six months and mainly for byways but any RoW issue can be dicussed as long as it's within Salop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestgrump Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Just in case anyone actually took my post seriously "I'd say a quiet Sunday evening on a stretch of the M1 maybe up around J15, would be nice if the weather was good, so how about mid July, perhaps the 19th ?" This may be the Billing weekend and I was joking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 ^^^ Don't you mean Kelmarsh ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I will be attending the Shropshire Byways User Group meeting next wed, 25th March on behalf of CRAG, if anyone has any issues with rights of way in Shropshire if you let me know it can be put onto the agenda of the meeting.The meetings are every six months and mainly for byways but any RoW issue can be dicussed as long as it's within Salop. Below are the minutes to be discussed at the byway user group, if anyone would like to add please feel free. BYWAYS LIAISON MEETING, CRAVEN ARMS. 25rd March 2009. • Byways Management Update/Flood Damage RK • Signage RK • General update – re: working with Crag RK/RD • 5 Turnings BS/RK • Bush Farm BS • Footbridge at Rowe Lane. BS • Boat 5 Richard Castle RK/BS • Voluntary Restraints • Volunteer support and priorities for the forthcoming year • Any other business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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