bishbosh Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 So, £6.33 of my hard earned has been handed over and this is what I got: Front Axle 1100kg = 2425lbs Rear Axle 960kg = 2116lbs That was with me in it but no recovery gear in the back. She is a full station wagon with external / internal cage and 200TDI auto (engine in 300 position) with front and rear winches. I am quite surprised at the weight distribution as the engine is so far forwards but I suppose the rear body and cage balances it out. Now all I need to do is stop my head spinning from all the spring research I have been doing! I want to stick to genuine springs basically on cost grounds and thought I had it sorted (only really want a 1" lift) until I found the spring I wanted has been replaced with a different rate one I had chosen NRC5527 on the front (210 / 16.1) and NRC8477 (178 / 18.2) on the back. Looks like the 5527's can't be had any more. I calculate (and confirmed by Trev ) that these will give me compressed lengths of 11.3 and 13.2" front and rear which is a little over a 1" lift over standard. (or what I measured on the truck this morning!) Anyone got a suitable replacement for the 5527's? I couldn't find one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Neale Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Can't help much with the springs Bish, but 1100kgs on the front is quite close to the max axle weight of 1200kg isn't it? Have you tried taking your wallet out of your pocket and leaving that in the back to level it out...? Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 So, £6.33 of my hard earned has been handed over and this is what I got:Front Axle 1100kg = 2425lbs Rear Axle 960kg = 2116lbs That was with me in it but no recovery gear in the back. She is a full station wagon with external / internal cage and 200TDI auto (engine in 300 position) with front and rear winches. Well, for comparison, when mine was a HT 90 V8 + cage etc and all (read LOTS) recovery gear + Me Front Axle 1160kg Rear Axle 1120KG I went through a Vast range and seriers of "Testers" before I got what I wanted, and can see where your thoughts have come from for the decided on springs, however..... I would say you might find 210 a tad hard on the fronts, unsure what your engine is but often std springs on a 90 front are the 14.8 + 15.19 175 lbs springs, so if you just went Red & whites at 170 vs 17.8 NRC 4304 They may be worth a thought ? Try and aim for the rear a tad higher than the front, makes driving much nicer And on the rears F me thats light compared with mine as was when a HT - and I had (still do ) Green & Yellow - NRC4234 Green Yellows 16.2 170lbs - when I went TC this rear end raised nearly 1.5 inches, so considering yours is lighter than mine was ? If too short Red & Whites rear are a possiblity ? Its always a combo of how much lift vs how hard / soft, and I was on the max articulation grail, but even now as a TC the HT springs are still OK just used a home made packer on the front to get the front up a little bit, did a post a while back on this mod, easy enough to do... I haven't run through Trev Calc, but I think 210 may be a tad too firm vs the rear a load softer ? Also be aware some of the springs show a rating but are actaully progressives - ie NRC8113 180 lbs Pink / Purple - these show also at 16.47, but the rating of 180 doesn't mean much as they are softer to start with as such fir these and the 16.47 seems not to be close to what you'd expect as they drop due to the nature of the setup Ask me how I know And lastly lastly, don't forget you have "Unsprung" weight vs above the axles being "Sprung weight". This can make quite a difference if a la Moi 34 simexs and HD casings etc etc, I used a guestimated weight of an axle when using the sring calc and compared, can make quite a difference Welcome to the "Nightmare World of Springs" HTH Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 Thanks for the thoughts Nige (and Matt ) I have been using a guestimate of the sprung weight by deducting 200kg for the front axle & wheels / tyres and 150g for the rear. Nige, your rear axle is probably heavier because of your monster winch and rear cross member - my rear cross member is only 5mm thick . My rear winch is leccy and mounted at the bulkhead. Red / white on the front is going to give close to 2" of lift which is more than I want really. Interesting that you think 210 might be too hard on the front. That is what I had on the Bishtail and they were great. Obviously the 90 is somewhat different thought so perhaps I should look to a softer spring..... then again, it has to be a jack of all trades so I can't have silly soft springs or the missus will get sea sick! :D I don't get how you make the NRC4234 work on the rear . My calcs for the rear show it having a compressed length of 10.9 which is 1.1 less than standard?? Or am I doing sumfink wrong? This is what Trev's calculator gave for my original choice: I know what you mean by Nightmare World of Springs!! Is there a therapy group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Charles, I have a set of stock Rangie springs (not bad nick), which you are welcome to if you can find a use for them, think they are Red/White and Green/Yellow, but not 100%! I also have 2" lifted Britpart springs, which are 200lb/in, but unsure of unloaded length, but can measure tomorrow if you like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 At this stage I will try anything Pete! Although I might have to draw the line at ****part....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I ordered some NRC8477 (came from Bearmach via Exeter 4x4) when I wanted something a little more than red/whites, unfortunately they where less than 18" free length. I'm not the only person to have found this, think Dave Lang had the same experience too. Seems to be a common mistake regarding the details on this spring. Might be worth getting somewhere to measure one before you order. I check the shed, must have gone in the last clear out after I sold the 90, sorry mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 My Chevy engined Rangie weighed the same on the front, red and whites worked best for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Bish OK Maybe I worked the figs for mine out differently, I may also have done it wrong, but this is how / what I did I measured what I had on the truck, they were Stf Genuine Springs in good nick I measured a height on the rear body both sides, and then on the front both sides This way I then had "4" marks to measure to the ground on Then, using the colours of the springs I used Trevs Calc to see what heights these gave me, they were drivers front 8.08, pass front 7.69 drivers rear 9.78 pass rear 9.27" Thus I then looked at the heights I wanted, by then popping in the various springs I could see the correlation between weight / poundage / lengths, and chose what I did I removed more than 200 for axle weights IIRC but not sure how much To save myself time I actually went through every spring and worked out the lengths, this way when I wanted say Drivers front + 1 " from 8.08 I just looked to see what was close to 9.08 ish on my charts etc The pic above shows springs over extended, again I think I played with the deflect rate but mainly started with the above route, maybe trev will be along to tell me I was / am 100% wrong - wouldn't be the 1st, and wouldn't defo be the last, but it sort of worked for moi ?? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'll measure up and post the results up here then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 So, £6.33 of my hard earned has been handed over and this is what I got:Front Axle 1100kg = 2425lbs Rear Axle 960kg = 2116lbs That was with me in it but no recovery gear in the back. She is a full station wagon with external / internal cage and 200TDI auto (engine in 300 position) with front and rear winches. I am quite surprised at the weight distribution as the engine is so far forwards but I suppose the rear body and cage balances it out. Now all I need to do is stop my head spinning from all the spring research I have been doing! I want to stick to genuine springs basically on cost grounds and thought I had it sorted (only really want a 1" lift) until I found the spring I wanted has been replaced with a different rate one I had chosen NRC5527 on the front (210 / 16.1) and NRC8477 (178 / 18.2) on the back. Looks like the 5527's can't be had any more. I calculate (and confirmed by Trev ) that these will give me compressed lengths of 11.3 and 13.2" front and rear which is a little over a 1" lift over standard. (or what I measured on the truck this morning!) Anyone got a suitable replacement for the 5527's? I couldn't find one...... Bish, bought mine genuine at the local dealers and also wanted NRC5527s for the front of mine, came away with NTC8572 (210, progressive) which superseded the older springs. I say that was a pretty good balanced starting point (perfectly ok to have the rear softer unless you plan on moving sheep or some such) but maybe just a tad stiff all round. If you can find a set maybe 10lbs/in lighter all round you'll get to use more up travel, have the springs dislocating later and not compromise side stability much over stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Bish, Sorry for the delay, I nearly forgot about this.... Stock Rangie springs I have are: Blue : 572315 15.4" 133lb/in Green : NRC2119 16.3" 150lb/in Both of which are probably rather soft for you... like riding on the bumpstops soft The Britpart pair of fronts are 200lb/in and measure 400mm (15.74") free length. Any good for you? If you're still skiving I could drop them up to you this week if you like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Thanks Pete. As you say, too short / soft for me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Can't tempt you with the Britpart ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hi Bish I have 225lb/" springs on the front of the 90 and they ride fine. They also compress ok off so no worries there.. Seeing as you are close to a standard 90, could you run standard springs and use the RR rubber isolators top and bottom to give you~ 1" lift?? NRC9446, Front drivers side, blue/green NRC9447, Front passenger side, blue/yellow NRC9448, Front drivers side, blue/red NRC9449, Front passenger side, yellow/white Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Steve, The 225lb/in on the front would work more or less with an isolator to add a bit, but the 175's on the rear are way to short - my calculation gives me a compressed length of around 10" which is 2" less that the standard height. The 90 currently sits at about standard height, despite 20 year old springs (12" spring seat distance at the rear, 10" at the front) that is less the station wagon rear seats but plus two winches, winch bumper and roll cage.... If I could find a softer rear spring that is long enough I might just try that. I discovered she rides very nicely with 5 wheels and tyres in the back but is harsh when empty (which is most of the time). In fact, I think I have just answered my own question - red / whites give a marginal lift at the rear (0.4") so I shall hunt down a pair of them and sling them on the back. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I meant STD springs in correct places, so 175's on front and 225's on rear with isolators top & bottom to add ~1". Personally I found 170lb red/whites too soft on rear. It bottomed out on bump stops off road as soon as it was loaded up. If you current springs are ok for now, why not spend ~£40 on the rr isolators to give you 1" lift and see how it goes. Cheap easy solution for now and you have something off a classic RR on your 90 ;) cheers steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 As for the rear, how about sone progressives. Softer for unloaded, harder for when you've got a full load on board. If you can't find a set at the height you want see if you can get a set than can be adjusted with isolators. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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