kev.rev Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Hi all, just got my first series 3, I bought it as a none runner due to no spark, I fixed that problem with new electronic ignition. My next problem is that now its running it smokes very very badly, a few good revs and i have a very big cloud of black/grey smoke, It seems like its running to rich, it will soot the plugs up in no time. I have checked the basic things (air filter and timing) and even done a compression test (all ok). It is fitted with an aftermarket su carb and inlet manifold, Im wondering if this is the problem? It is on the log book as a 2.25 petrol but I have some paper work that says its got a 2.5 petrol out of an early 90? How can I tell what engine I have as I want to get a different carb and manifold to see that solves my problems? Are the 2.25 and 2.5 carb and manifold the same? Any advise would be most helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstream Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Hi Kev I wouldnt change the Carb, people here in Denmark are spending lots of money, changing for the SU as its should work far better than the Weber. Have a look at ACR,www.automotivecomp.com (I think). Good luck ! Morten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Engine ID 105xxxxxx Series III petrol 3528cc V8 10Hxxxxxx 90/110 petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 10Jxxxxxx 90/110 diesel 2286cc 11Gxxxxxx Series III petrol 3528cc V8 (detoxed) 11Hxxxxxx 90/110 petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR (detoxed) 11Jxxxxxx 90/110 diesel 2495cc MOD spec 12Gxxxxxx Series III petrol 3528cc V8 (Australia) 12Jxxxxxx 90/110 diesel 2495cc 13Hxxxxxx 90/110 petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 141xxxxxx Series II petrol 1997cc 146xxxxxx Series II diesel 2052cc 14Gxxxxxx 90/110 petrol 3528cc V8 14Jxxxxxx Freight-rover NA diesel 2495cc 151xxxxxx Series II petrol 2286cc 156xxxxxx Series II diesel 2052cc 15Gxxxxxx 90/110 petrol 3528cc V8 (detoxed) 15Jxxxxxx Freight-rover NA diesel 2495cc 16Jxxxxxx Industrial NA diesel 2495cc 17Hxxxxx 90/110 petrol 2495cc 19Jxxxxxx 90/110 turbodiesel 2495cc 236xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc (fitted to 88 inch airportable) 241xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 251xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 252xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 253xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 271xxxxxx Series IIA diesel 2286cc 276xxxxxx Series IIA diesel 2286cc 286xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2286cc (Forward Control) 300xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2625cc (Forward Control) 325xxxxxx Series IIB petrol 2286cc (Forward Control) 330xxxxxx Series IIB petrol 2625cc (Forward Control) 335xxxxxx Series IIB diesel 2286cc (Forward Control) 345xxxxxx Series IIA petrol 2625cc 361xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 5-bearing 364xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 5-bearing 366xxxxxx Series III diesel 2286cc 5-bearing 895xxxxxx Series III diesel 2286cc 3-bearing (fitted to 88 inch airportable for export) 901xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 3-bearing 902xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 3-bearing 903xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 8:1 CR 3-bearing 904xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 7:1 CR 3-bearing 906xxxxxx Series III diesel 2286cc 3-bearing 941xxxxxx Series III petrol 2625cc 951xxxxxx Series III petrol 2286cc 3-bearing (fitted to 88 inch airportable) 956xxxxxx 101FC petrol 3528cc V8 961xxxxxx 101FC petrol 3528cc V8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 What colour is the smoke? For a petrol engine blue is likely to be lubricating oil. white is possibly steam - from a leaky head gasket but it will steam a bit until the exhaust is warm as there's loads of water vapour in exhaust fumes which will condense in the system. If its black then its excessive petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Its more black smoke with a hint of grey and it stinks of petrol, there is no mayo in the oil and it dose not over heat and the comprresion test was fine so I dont think its head gasket? It ticks over fine but when I rev it it sounds realy chocked up and miss fires abit and also produces lots and lots of smoke, and yes I have checked the choke is working properly. I have had the su carb off and taken it apart and cleaned it but that made no diffrence. I think I might need to try a different carb just to see if it makes things better? Will a 2.25 carb work on a 2.5 as my mate has one for the 2.25 that I can try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Could well be a stuck float needle in the carb causing over-fuelling, worth a punt if you ask me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You could be running with the mixture too rich? Have you topped up the splash pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Right, had some time to play with truck today, had the manifolds off and found most of the valve stems covered in oil! We took the head off and found the cylinders very wet with oil, I think my problem is the valve stem seals? Took the valves out and they all look ok, is there any thing else that would let oil into the top of the valves? There was no oil in the inlet mainfold! Where is the engine number as I still dont know if its a 2.25 or a 2.5 and I need to order a head gasket set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 depends a bit on what engine it is...!! have a look of the top of the boss which supports the fuel lift pump, left hand side at the back, or the filler tube boss on the left side front..both of these have large flat areas where the numbers can be stamped, but being horizontal they oftern get caked in carp so this disappear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have looked all over the engine and I cannot find an engine number? Assuming I have got the 2.5 engine (what it says on log book) Where would it be? I am going to change the piston rings aswell now I have got the head off, what measurments can be taken to know for sure if its a 2.25 or a 2.5 and what are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 On my 2.5's the engine number is stamped on the flat surface of the block where the lift pump plate fits, on a series 2.25 its on the front corner under the front exhaust manifold branch on a raised pad on the water gallery into the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 depends a bit on what engine it is...!! have a look of the top of the boss which supports the fuel lift pump, left hand side at the back,, but being horizontal they oftern get caked in carp so this disappear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thank you all for your help, I have now found the number, I have got the 2.5 that it says on the log book. My next question is where would be the best place to get the parts fotr the re build? Im going to replace the valves and guides, replace the piston rings and maybe the shells depending on what condition they are in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Do the guides really need replacing? This isn't really a DIY job, as they have to be fitted, then reamed to suit the valve stems. You might get away without a ream, but fitting guides is tricky - they are easily damaged. If play in the guides is within the limits, then I would leave well alone. If a compression test was ok, then no need to replace the rings either. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 New stem seals and bolt it back together -wouldn't go to all that extra expense on a lowly 2.5 petrol. As Les says, I wouldn't consider replacing the guides, big money and not a DIY job at all. You can measure the valve stems to see if they are worn, specs should be in the workshop manual, available at: http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm Ifthey need replacing, get the new valves and fit, and measure the tolerance between valve and guide to determine if you need to do anything to the guides -but a good second hand head would be cheaper...... What were the compression readings, out of interest? HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Oh dear? Too late! I have already knocked them out! Got the pistons out now and the big end shells are just showing copper so I will change them and as the pistons are out I might aswell put new rings on? What is it they say about a little knowledge being dangerous? I have to keep telling myself this is my hobby and I should be enjoying it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WESTENDER Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 now you will have to deglaze the cylinder bores and make sure that the new compression rings are a stepped ring fitted correctly to allow for the wear ridge at the top of the bores, do not try to get this ridge out with the glaze buster hones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 Right, had a good day on engine today. I have got the bores honed out, piston rings fitted, big end shells put on and pistons fitted back in engine (and it turns over) I have also got the valve guides in, I didnt find them that hard to fit, I ended up heating up the head on our rayburn and putting the guides in the freezer, it worked a treat they nearly just fell in. The valves fit good, not to tight so I think I have got away without getting them reemed out, I think it was worth doing as there was alot of play in the old ones. I have just got the valves to grind in and then its ready to put the head back on and see if I have sorted the smoke problem, oh I might have the oil pump to bits and make sure every thing looks ok inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriebil.dk Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 i wouldn't fit any of the 2,25 carbs on a 2,5 petrol, they are rubish on the 2,25 so can only do worse on a 2,5. i would go for a standard Weber for a 2,5, or a suitable upgrade from automotive. while your having it out, why not fit another cam shaft ? check out automotives site. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 i wouldn't fit any of the 2,25 carbs on a 2,5 petrol, they are rubish on the 2,25 so can only do worse on a 2,5. i would go for a standard Weber for a 2,5, or a suitable upgrade from automotive. while your having it out, why not fit another cam shaft ? check out automotives site. I dont think the problem was in the carb, it was burning lots of oil and that is why its having the rebuild. It has got a different cam and stage 2 head from automotives, all done in 1997 according to invoice I have got in the service history. I have not taken the engine out just droped the sump and taken the head off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I have now got the head all built up and I hope to get it all fitted and back together tomorrow, if the rain holds off?(fingers crossed) I will let you know how I get on, If it smokes now after all this time and effort I will not be a happy man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Just be aware that it will still smoke to start with, so dont get ratty too quick! There will be oil in the passageways which needs to be burnt out first, and there may be traces of oil in the exhaust. When this has burnt out, it should be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev.rev Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 All ok now and even beat the rain! It started and ran fine, bit of smoke to start with but that soon cleared. Just got to run it in now, and the speedo cable needs replacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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