Buying a 90

[Dunc]

For insurance, go to Lancaster. They've insured all mine for years now.

V8 fuel consumption always looks sensible, or at least something you could cope with, when you work it out on paper. That's all complete cobblers though and you don't realise just how much they drink until you start getting birthday cards from the local filling station...

As to the "buy the best you can find" argument, i sort-of disagree...

Go the the auctions and buy something that's been beaten up a bit but is all together and runs well enough. Then, learn how it goes together by rebuilding it yourself. You'll then have something worth a lot more than you paid and you'll know how to rebuild it if it goes wrong.

300Tdi is a better daily drive (in my experience) as it's more revvy for overtaking. My 90 happily batted along at 70+mph.

Apart from Discos i've only had experience of one 200Tdi Defender, and that was my 110 which had a different intercooler and fuel pump for a bit more grunt. It was truly a fantastic vehicle, but VERY vibey at low speed / low rpm.

If you're not a speed demon don't ignore the earlier 2.5 n/a trucks, especially ex-mil ones. Bombproof engines that will do a gazillion miles and actually encourage a different kind of driving. With your budget you could buy an oldy and do a galv chassis/stainless fasteners rebuild and have something that will last for years.

Enjoy your Defender when you get it, just make sure you don't sell it once you've got it right or you'll end up a grumpy miserable old git like me...

[landroversforever]

For insurance, go to Lancaster. They've insured all mine for years now.

V8 fuel consumption always looks sensible, or at least something you could cope with, when you work it out on paper. That's all complete cobblers though and you don't realise just how much they drink until you start getting birthday cards from the local filling station...

As to the "buy the best you can find" argument, i sort-of disagree...

Go the the auctions and buy something that's been beaten up a bit but is all together and runs well enough. Then, learn how it goes together by rebuilding it yourself. You'll then have something worth a lot more than you paid and you'll know how to rebuild it if it goes wrong.

300Tdi is a better daily drive (in my experience) as it's more revvy for overtaking. My 90 happily batted along at 70+mph.

Apart from Discos i've only had experience of one 200Tdi Defender, and that was my 110 which had a different intercooler and fuel pump for a bit more grunt. It was truly a fantastic vehicle, but VERY vibey at low speed / low rpm.

If you're not a speed demon don't ignore the earlier 2.5 n/a trucks, especially ex-mil ones. Bombproof engines that will do a gazillion miles and actually encourage a different kind of driving. With your budget you could buy an oldy and do a galv chassis/stainless fasteners rebuild and have something that will last for years.

Enjoy your Defender when you get it, just make sure you don't sell it once you've got it right or you'll end up a grumpy miserable old git like me...

I've tried uploading my Excel Spreasheet on with all my costs... but the forum will not let me!

I appreciate that the fuel cost is likely to be higher than the figures in my spreadsheet, but I am working with realistic figures for MPG etc.

Buying one that needs a rebuild is something I would like to do, but 1) I dont have the space and 2) my parents do not think I would be able to! Plus a rebuild, is going to spiral cost wise.

I'm not a speed demon, and would be even further away from being one in a Land Rover. The main idea is that I will buy a 90 that I will most probably have for the rest of my life, or atleast the majority!

[mickeyw]

Working on a price of 57.9 for LPG and 110.9 for Diesel... 13 and 30 mpg respectively... I get a difference of £30 a month more for the V8.

Ross,

Don't want to put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm, but I've never managed to make a V8 do as many MPG as I hoped.

You, like myself obviously lurve the V8 sound track, but it does come at a cost You will no doubt be unable to drive your first V8 sensibly (read economically). I'm not saying this just based on your age, (although it may be a factor), but I can't and I've been driving a V8 daily for 15 years now, the last 7 years on LPG, and the last 6 months with an autobox.

The latter coupled with large mud terrains don't help economy

May I suggest you do your calculations based on 10MPG for general driving Longer gentle trips may achieve 15. I have a 12 minute trip to work every day and there's roundabout Grand Prix potential all the way. Hooligan driving and offroad days always see sub 10MPG.

I must now congratulate you on finding insurance for a 4.6 Ninety for less than a tin Pug. I would double check they know exactly what it is you want to insure before agreeing to anything.

As everyone else has said, take your time and choose carefully. Good Luck.

[landroversforever]

guessing that is 10mpg on gas?

[landroversforever]

this is what i have in the calculator. only pay attention to the 206 column and the 90 v8 Gas column. the others are most probably 'out of tune'!

[bishbosh]

and if you spend a day off road in a V8 expect 4-8 mpg on petrol . It is only then that you realise why RRC fuel tanks are sooo big! Just so you can get back to the fuel station at the end of the day!

[landroversforever]

and if you spend a day off road in a V8 expect 4-8 mpg on petrol . It is only then that you realise why RRC fuel tanks are sooo big! Just so you can get back to the fuel station at the end of the day!

I hadn't thought of that...

That could be the proverbial slash on my bonfire...

[Retroanaconda]

I would say 19 MPG on petrol is a bit optimistic too as well

From what I have heard/read on here

[landroversforever]

Thinking out loud:

Looking around, there is far more choice for a tdi than V8.

Realistically, V8 should be out??? (please dont be afraid to give me a blunt opinion reality check about running a V8!!)

In the future when I have the money/another car for work, could always convert to a V8/auto

Tdi is extremely likely to be manual - so can learn to drive off road with that first, better to start with?

Cheaper to run tdi... tempted to spend the 'spare' on toys? flip-side being a V8 would mean less spare cash, so less likely to pile on the accessories. I want to learn to drive offroad before getting the toys!

Playdays will be cheaper with a 200/300, therefore afford to do more.

Have i come to a natural decision that a 200/300 is going to be a better idea?

See the revised calculator attached... comments on values most welcome!

[bishbosh]

I would honestly question your ideal that your first LR will be the one you will keep for ever. You may find you hate driving a 90 on road for long periods and may yearn for a Disco / freebie / RRC / Focus.

Get a good TDi 90 now. Drive it, maintain it, use it off road etc etc. It won't depreciate a lot so you should be able to recoup most of your investment should you decide it is not for you.

Once you know what you want next you can then shop accordingly.

[Retroanaconda]

A good Tdi will see you well, dead simple to work with, reasonably cheap to run.

I'm very priveledged in that I have a Focus (?) to run about in on road, to and from work etc, but if I didn't have it I wouldn't mind driving the 90 all year round.

So yeah, Tdi for now. Use and enjoy it for a few years (without going crazy with unnecessary mods ) and then if you want to and can afford it then by all means put a V8 auto in there. I know I plan to one day, although it'll be manual. Just a matter of when and how

[landroversforever]

I think Tdi for now then

[Retroanaconda]

Good man. You should be able to find a mighty nice Tdi for that money, if you look hard enough

As I say, any my way and if I'm free let me know and I'll give you a hand.

[mad_pete]

Yep get a nice diesel. It's very soul destroying to have a nice car you can't drive because you can't put petrol in the tank.

And you need to get one that's decent in the right places. Dents are fine, rotten chassis and engines on their last legs are not.

[landroversforever]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Defender-90-Tdi-Hardtop_W0QQitemZ270489403959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item3efa6cc237#ht_690wt_1165

Any thoughts?

[Rich_P]

Looks reasonable on the surface. Be sure to inspect it underneath. I was very surprised to find how many 90s and 110s can look reasonable on the surface but be shot where it matters.

By the way, where did you get the far higher maintenance costs for the non-utility Land Rover products in your chart? Mechanically (and maybe electrically) they're not all that different to the utility models...

[landroversforever]

The maintenance costs i got from when LRO did a feature about all of the models, costs over i think 4/5 years. yearly cost was the total divided by how ever many years it was.

[landroversforever]

Ebay link insurance quote with Flux... £1927.60

[mickeyw]

Thinking out loud:

I want to learn to drive offroad before getting the toys!

Playdays will be cheaper with a 200/300, therefore afford to do more.

Have i come to a natural decision that a 200/300 is going to be a better idea?

Ross, I was pleased to read your comment above, a very wise idea. I see an awful lot of cheque book off-roaders out there who HAVE got all the toys and STILL can't drive off road and don't even know how to use their gadgets!

I had no money for even a decent set of tyres when I started out with my Series III 2.25P,(7.50x16 Firestone SATs were the dog's danglies then), never mind a winch or lockers; and snorkels were almost unheard of . Despite having no more than a tow rope and plenty of enthusiasm me and my mates still managed to fight our way around the play sites without too much trouble, you just looked at what you were about to drive into first. Still plenty of fun was had and a lot of learning how to drive too.

BTW, I still think your fuel figures, even for a dead weasel look a little optimistic.

Insurance wise, and this may be a little taboo, but have you considered adding your mum as a named driver? It can make quite a surprising difference. £1927.60 sounds very very painful.

Yep get a nice diesel. It's very soul destroying to have a nice car you can't drive because you can't put petrol in the tank.

A 2.5 N/A D will teach you to appreciate what can be achieved (and not broken) with less power. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, you're less likely to get any speeding tickets, and you may even have some £ left over to put in the tank.

[landroversforever]

Ross, I was pleased to read your comment above, a very wise idea. I see an awful lot of cheque book off-roaders out there who HAVE got all the toys and STILL can't drive off road and don't even know how to use their gadgets!

I had no money for even a decent set of tyres when I started out with my Series III 2.25P,(7.50x16 Firestone SATs were the dog's danglies then), never mind a winch or lockers; and snorkels were almost unheard of . Despite having no more than a tow rope and plenty of enthusiasm me and my mates still managed to fight our way around the play sites without too much trouble, you just looked at what you were about to drive into first. Still plenty of fun was had and a lot of learning how to drive too.

BTW, I still think your fuel figures, even for a dead weasel look a little optimistic.

Insurance wise, and this may be a little taboo, but have you considered adding your mum as a named driver? It can make quite a surprising difference. £1927.60 sounds very very painful.

A 2.5 N/A D will teach you to appreciate what can be achieved (and not broken) with less power. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, you're less likely to get any speeding tickets, and you may even have some £ left over to put in the tank.

Are you meaning fuel figures for V8 or for for the 200/300??

The only real Taboo, would be insuring me as a named driver. The quote i threw together this morning in my break was with me as the main driver, and Dad as a named driver. I put it into Moneysupermarket with Mom and Dad as named drivers, got it to either £720 with admiral / Elephant OR £1179 and up for the rest.

2.5 N/A diesel, is ex MOD a good idea? what are they going to be like for trecking to shows/motorway work? will they be more efficient than a 200/300?

What do insurance companies think if you ring up for a quote on a vehicle you dont own (yet)?

[daveturnbull]

Ross,

When I got my Land Rover (my first car) I thought I wanted a v8 too. So I got one with a 5.7 chevy lump in it. Within 6 months I nearly sold it. Then another 6 months later I bought a 200 tdi disco and swapped the engine and gearbox into my Land Rover. And now I'll never sell it.

Yes the v8 sounded nice and was a bit faster, but back in the real world the tdi...

* Starts every time I turn the key

* Doesn't stop until I turn the key back the other way

* Has a fuel consumption that's measured in MPG, not GPM

* Doesn't mind a bit of water once in a while

* Tows well

* Has buckets more low down torque

* Is far more controllable

* Never breaks down

In short, tdi = good decision.

Over the past few years I've had experience of driving and working on various different diesel land rovers. Given the choice, I'd buy a 200 TDi again.

[Rich_P]

2.5 NA is a good engine. What it lacks in power and torque it more than makes up for reliability. Of course, it is the longer stroke version of an engine that powered Land Rovers for 32 years, so should be good.

I still think you should consider other Land Rovers if you have not fully worked out their costs.

[mickeyw]

Are you meaning fuel figures for V8 or for for the 200/300??

The only real Taboo, would be insuring me as a named driver. The quote i threw together this morning in my break was with me as the main driver, and Dad as a named driver. I put it into Moneysupermarket with Mom and Dad as named drivers, got it to either £720 with admiral / Elephant OR £1179 and up for the rest.

2.5 N/A diesel, is ex MOD a good idea? what are they going to be like for trecking to shows/motorway work? will they be more efficient than a 200/300?

What do insurance companies think if you ring up for a quote on a vehicle you dont own (yet)?

Just my opinion, but for a LR Ninety I would base your calcs for average fuel consumption as follows. V8 (any capacity) 13-14 MPG on petrol, 10-12 on LPG. Tdi (200 and 300)25 MPG, yes it can do better, (but none of us really drive like nuns do we), and a lot worse when towing heavy stuff, .

Having responsible named adults (parents) on one's policy seems to help reduce the cost a bit. Definitely have the policy in your own name, that way you'll be building up your own NCD sooner.

2.5 NAD - well as RichP has said they're a very reliable engine, if a little underpowered. You won't want to drive too many motorway miles in one of these, that's not to say you can't though, just get used to travelling at 50mph, a sign of a dedicated enthusiast

[landroversforever]

Thanks for that michael . figures most appreciated .

I was insured as a named driver on the 206 for the first year after i passed... but earning a NCB with direct line. I guess this isnt transferable to another company? would they take it into account?

[TD5 power]

hi

as far as i'm aware the ncb from direct line should be valid for all companies,

I have had good experience with adrian flux my 90TD was £1200 with 1 yr ncb and i was only 18 i think it was norwich union, some people on here have not had good service from adrian flux but i will be asking them for a quote when my 90 is back on the road fully rebuilt.

When i bought my 90 i had a good look round it and there were bits that would need work but the important bits looked solid. However after a couple of months it appeared the previous owner had applied waxy oil and paint in vast enough quantities to cover up the fact the rear of the chassis was shot.

The truck is now going through a complete rebuild with new chassis, 200TDI etc although this isn't a bad thing as i plan to keep it for a long time, i could have probably avoided it by looking harder when i bought it and asking why it was nicely painted under there? good maintenance/ trying to hide something.

so the point of my general rambling when looking at a truck check the chassis then check it again, if its good and so is the bulkhead most other bits can be sorted relatively easily. The TD engine in mine was good, once it was running was a nice truck to drive however it needed 20 seconds on the heater plugs when cold.

If you can find a good one then it wasn't too expensive to insure and did a consistent 27mpg checked over 6000 miles and only gave up when the slave cylinder failed and killed the clutch.

matt