gsr341 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 as im sure you can see from my numerous other posts im changi ng the cam belt on my 300tdi , just doing a bit after work , as well as fitting d44 winch bumper , overhauling 2 warn 8274 building a winch control panell and got 3 more wheel bearings to do and over haul both props , before a week sunday any how the crank pully bolt will NOT budge at all , so far tryed large bar , with landy backed up to a wall to stop it rolling Failed !, bar locked against chassis and turn over engine , Failed ! air impact gun Failed even tyred a little heat , in case it was locktited , no joy my two options as i see them are hire a large 240volt impact gun (hire one in work for a job) or drill it out any one any other ideas ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajlorton Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 When you say they have failed - in what way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Well I've had to undo quite a few, but have never come across one that just won't have it. Even with lots of loctite it'll still come off with an impact gun. Not sure about heat - it'll make the metal expand=tighter fit. I'm surprised that using the starter motor isn't working, what happens when you turn the key then? If your battery is low, then it'll seriously affect this method of undoing the bolt. Rattle gun should work every time (is it set to max?) . If you feel you need to drill the bolt, then engine out I think to get a straight line on the bolt. If it turns out to be just an overtight bolt and you do get it undone, then replace it as it's likey to have been overstressed. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted April 20, 2006 Author Share Posted April 20, 2006 When you say they have failed - in what way? the bolts still in its hole batt isnt the greatest , will put on charge when i go to work tommorrow , got the rad and every thing out so if i do have to drill it accsess is easey im a maintainance fitter by trade so have removed plenty of tight broken bolts so its not a case of lack of experiance its just plain tight , ex council vehicle , think EVERY thing was wound up with a comercial vehicle impact gun , broke two 48" breaker bars jusr removing the wheels when i bought it just wondering if any one else had experianced one so tight ? i will remove it tommorrow nite , if i have to chew it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 sounds like you know what you are doing, so can't realy offer much advice. as Les said, when you do get it out, make sure you replace it... just a thought but Wurth make a spray that freezes siezed bolts and causes micro cracks, i cant remember all the details but it certainly works... just keep dousing it in release oil, and i'd try the impact gun.. they are supposed to be loctited in on the 300TDi's though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 sounds like you know what you are doing, Are you turning it the right way? righty tighty lefty loosy sorry probly wasnt much help that was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Be VERY careful applying heat, speaking entirely from memory and possibly from my behind, the front pulley has a rubber element which acts as a torsional damper, but won't continue to do so if you burn all the rubber out first. In 5th gear with the brakes on? Then tried flicking the starter motor? I'm surprised the starter isn't having it... you did take it out of gear after the static method, didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 When I did the cam belt the first time I didn;t do a good enough job of putting it together and the pully wobbled a bit, knackered the woodruff key and slot on the pulley. However, when it came time to get it off, it was mega tight. I snapped my 36" Snap-on breaker bar and split a socket then snapped a couple of Halfrauds bars without much effort. I felt the problem was that I couldn't get enough shock to the bolt to crack the holding force so ended up with a 3/4" drive bar and impact socket with a scaffold extension tube, puled with a rachet strap to get it to the point where it was holding energy then clouting it with a sledge hammer about 4ft up. Worked after a couple of big blows.. I could not get an impact gun directly onto the bolt with the engine in and you loose a lot of energy in the extensions if you fit them between the socket and the gun. Good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Mine was an absolute B..tard to undo in the end I made a bar to bolt on to the front pulley bolt to lock the pulley on the chassis so there was no movement whatsover otherthan the bolt..... Then used a 3/4 drive in the biggest bar possible size and a 6 foot scaffold pole, stood astride the engine bay with a foot on each wing.... gave it a great big Chuurrrrrrrrrrrr.....and.....urgggghhhhhhhh......then a coommmeeeeeoooonnnnnn.....you.........'fuppin'...thing of an uncertain parentage and it eventually gave.......... And most of the neighbours were laughing out of the upstairs windows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 is the engine in a runnable state? if it is, run it until it is at normal operating temp. then remove the spark plugs (or glow plugs) and use the starter motor method - the engine won't be working against the compression guarantteed to work.* * actually dunno but worth a go eh? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Using Fatboy's idea, what about bracing the bar on the chassis, rotating a roadwheel to wind up some tension until the clutch starts slipping, then get a punch or FBH and start hammering the socket to 'shock' the bolt? Mind your fingers, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Using the breaker bar wedged against the chassis is a bit of a naughty really - but it works very well MOST of the time. What I am going to suggest now is naughtier still but might just do the job. Instead of jamming the bar under the drivers side chassis rail, jam it under the passenger side rail. Use cable ties to secure the bar to the front damper so that it stays on and then go turn the engine BRIEFLY on the motor. As the engine starts to spin you start to store energy in the flywheel. When the bar meets the underside of the drivers chassis rail (a little less than 1/2 a revolution) you will release that energy into the bolt and, if you are lucky, it will come undone. As Les said, be sure the battery is properly charged. I though mine was exceptionaly tight until I went to start the car after the job was comleted and found that the battery was flat. D'OH! If all else fails you could resort to using the correct special tool for restraining the damper. But what fun would that be? All the best Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The last one I did was really tight ……….. when all other methods had failed ……. This worked……. Put it into 5th gear highrange and chock wheels. Use a ¾ drive socket and longish breaker bar. Get a 6 foot length of scaffold and place over breaker bar. Stand on front wing and undo crankbolt using the scaffold tube as a lever. Just because I am a git ……. and also to make sure it was nice & tight …… I used the same method to re torque the bolt This worked a treat when…. cranking the engine …. impact gun …...& mild heat had all failed. Les B and I must have been to the same school of engineering Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 you may all be pleased to know ive removed the crank pully bolt B) just used the high gear breaker bar and 5' of pipe easy peasey cheers for all you help guys thats what makes this forum so great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well done....... On a cautionary note …………… make sure you do it up real tight again, as they tend to come loose ……. (It is thought that it is due to immersion in cold water with a hot engine). If it does come loose then the crankshaft will be scrap in a very short period of time as the woodruff keyway becomes damaged beyond repair. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well done.......On a cautionary note …………… make sure you do it up real tight again, as they tend to come loose ……. (It is thought that it is due to immersion in cold water with a hot engine). If it does come loose then the crankshaft will be scrap in a very short period of time as the woodruff keyway becomes damaged beyond repair. Ian .... and loctite on the taper of the pulley as well as the bolt. (As per instructions in manual). As I mentioned above, mine went slack. Fortunately the crank was okay but the pulley, key and bolt were junk. The new pulley itself was very expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 So, pardon my ignorance, but why wouldn't the thwack desiging this thing use a left hand thread? Wouldn't that decrease the liklihood of it coming undone and perhaps reduce that required torque from 50 zillion lbft and half a bottle of loctite, to something more reasonable? Or am I missing the point/demonstrating why I'm an accountant not a mechanic/being a thwack myself/shut up Paul and go back to your ledgers. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 So, pardon my ignorance, but why wouldn't the thwack desiging this thing use a left hand thread? One word answers that "Solihull" Nuff said Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Originalll they were made RH thread so that the starting handle would not undo the bolt. Just a hangover from then I suspect - or the LR engine design shop only owns a RHT tap! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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