Rant and a bit of info.

[David_LLAMA4x4]

Hello

Not often I find the time to add to the Forum these days but I have 10 mins and another example of a bit of a situation.....

Are LR owners so used to being sold shi*tty parts that they automatically assume all parts must be that way?

I have just has an email enquiry for brake hoses ( not for a LR ) from a LR owner.... and it raises the same fear about stainless steel brake hoses I get several times a week but only from LR owners.

The point in question is always about custom made hoses and the type of fitting they have ie. swaged on or olive / nut type.

Wht do all LR owners automatically assume they will have the crappy ( not actually so IMHO ) olive type? Why do Suzuki, Jeep, Nissan, Audi, Westfield, Kawasaki, etc. owners all assume they will come with nice swaged on ends and not even consider the other type unless they actually ask if it possible to have them that way?

By defalut I always use the swaged on ends and have done for years and years and years.

It is a noticeable trend ( 90% accurate ) so why do the LR owners always fear they are going to get a lesser product? - I fear it nmay well come back to the point that so much LR stuff on the market is simply carp that doesn't work properly that they assume that this is all they can expect.......

Any thoughts?

David

[Guest]

I think you hit the nail on the head, there is so much after market stuff on the market that is just C**P that finding a good supplier is getting harder.

Lets face it you buy a Land Rover and then spend the next few years rebuilding it!!! what other car do you do that with? but we still buy them.....

Its a Land Rover thing!!! once you have been stung you learn to ask the obvious questions!!!!

Jason.

[rtbarton]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

@ Jason - Snap!

[white90]

All down to cost/profit David

if anyone can sell carp but make ££ they will it seems

look across Ebay for vast amounts of it

I have had bad oil cooler hoses supplied and other things

[moore101]

not wanting to stir things up but is there really anything wrong with checking?

if it says on the product decription that they're swaged then there would be no need to ask?

[ajh]

Because they are used to paying twice what a jeep owner will for basically the same parts, I realize there are legitimate reasons for this sometimes, but feeling like you're always being taken advantage of will breed mistrust.

[David_LLAMA4x4]

not wanting to stir things up but is there really anything wrong with checking?

if it says on the product decription that they're swaged then there would be no need to ask?

No harm in checking at all and I never mind being asked the question as it lets me blurt on about standards and pressure tests of all the hoses i sell etc...

It just interests me that it is the LR world that feel the need to check up - others seem to automatically assume they will get the right parts...

David

[David_LLAMA4x4]

Because they are used to paying twice what a jeep owner will for basically the same parts, I realize there are legitimate reasons for this sometimes, but feeling like you're always being taken advantage of will breed mistrust.

I would say the Jeep parts are twice the price of the LR ones if you live in the UK.

I wonder whether some of the problem has come from the fact that LR owners want the stuff so cheap that the only way a supplier can drop to the prices the customer wants is to source and then sell on poor quality parts. Perhaps if LR owners paid as much as Jeep / Nissan / Audi / Kawasaki /etc. for their parts the quality might be better

I think the 'paying twice' sums up the LR world more than 'paying twice as much'

David

[jbs]

You only get what you pay for and if you buy cheap and nasty then that's what you'll get, I used to use a company over at Guildford for my parts but after repeatedly having to change out the bit I'd done again-I then saved up and either got bearmach or even all makes parts as the parts quality was a lot better and lasted much longer

[moore101]

It just interests me that it is the LR world that feel the need to check up - others seem to automatically assume they will get the right parts...

again not wanting to start any arguements but having seen quite a lot of home modified suzuki 'offroaders' it wouldnt surprise me that they wouldnt be asking questions about quality as they seem to hold everything together with duct tape

[FridgeFreezer]

My thoughts:

1 - If you stated on your literature / website that the construction was swaged then people wouldn't have to ask, it's called marketing

2 - LR owners are used to be being sold whatever cr*p the supplier thinks they can get away with, witness the Paddocks etc. of the world who will send you Britpart junk at every opportunity and claim it's as good as a genuine part costing 10x as much.

3 - Many LR owners are tight as **** and will happily buy the aforementioned cr*p if it saves them a couple of quid, even if they have to do it twice, because they'll probably fill it with mud or f**k it some other way before it wears out.

4 - Some people are just idiots and will e-mail you to ask all sorts of stuff even if you've already told them. And even then probably never buy anything.

[PeterW]

My thoughts:

2 - LR owners are used to be being sold whatever cr*p the supplier thinks they can get away with, witness the Paddocks etc. of the world who will send you Britpart junk at every opportunity and claim it's as good as a genuine part costing 10x as much.

3 - Many LR owners are tight as **** and will happily buy the aforementioned cr*p if it saves them a couple of quid, even if they have to do it twice, because they'll probably fill it with mud or f**k it some other way before it wears out.

I use Paddock as its local, and I know I can ask stupid questions that get laughed at from the main stealers. Yes, they do sell S**tpart, and other cheapo bits, but I was pleasantly surprised when I ordered a load of bits recently and all bar one is a LR Gen part. These are the same gen parts I was quoted by a main dealer at 3-4x the price I paid at Paddock, with discount too...

Lets be honest, even Land Rover gen parts are pretty poor to start with - I have a gen parts bulkhead that was brand new and when I fitted it it had proper prep, primer and top coats, and stonechip protection, yet its STILL RUSTING !!

I agree with whats been said though, we expect suspect parts and then question to the nth degree to make sure we are getting the right stuff when its actually an upgrade part - look at the quality of stuff from people such as LLama4x4 and X-Eng and you will see there are people trying to buck the trend.

The LR world is not the only one with poor quality - check out any kit car manufacturer or some of the bolt on suppliers for the boy racers. GRP panels that redefine the word kwalitee....

Cheers

Pete

[rtbarton]

Stuff should be designed and made to do its job properly. The price follows on from that. If stuff is made so cheaply that it doesn't do its job it shouldn't be on the market.

[Rich_P]

I use Paddock as its local, and I know I can ask stupid questions that get laughed at from the main stealers. Yes, they do sell S**tpart, and other cheapo bits, but I was pleasantly surprised when I ordered a load of bits recently and all bar one is a LR Gen part. These are the same gen parts I was quoted by a main dealer at 3-4x the price I paid at Paddock, with discount too...

Except, last I was aware, LR are now starting to sell Britpart parts in the LR box.

[Les Henson]

The Land Rover main dealer near me (T.H.White) is selling britpart stuff - claiming it's OE/ a higher grade than normal. However - after inspecting the parts (2 x swivel ball rebuild kits) the swivel balls had pits in them, the bearings were made in China, the gaskets were too thin, and the top swivel pin was a very loose fit in the railko bush. Needless to say, the whole lot was taken back for a refund.

Bearmach have a rather unique returns policy now (which they claim they have always had). If a part is faulty - you return it and they send it away for testing, and if it's proven to be faulty, then they refund you the money/replace the part. This is all well and good if it only took a day or so for the part to be tested, but I've been waiting on a Freelander drivers window regulator to be tested, and a TD5 Disco fuel pump to be tested. The window regulator was sent back before Xmas, and the pump nearly three weeks ago. What they suggest you do is buy a second part and then if the returned part is proven to be faulty - they will then refund you the money. Otherwise - wait, and wait, and wait................

So if you buy a part from Bearmach - make sure you have enough money for two, or be prepared to wait - forever with a Land Rover that's off the road.

Les.

[simonr]

I think the problem is that there are a lot of cheap, low quality parts on the market. That sets a cost expectation for people so anyone selling decent quality finds it difficult to make a living. This in itself drives cost and thus quality down so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Quality parts are the exception rather than the rule - hence checking is usually a good plan. There are people (including yourself) who I will buy from without giving it a second thought - but not many!

I know from personal experience that for Jeeps (and other 4x4's) there are few patterned parts available so the suppliers are only really competing with OE parts which are uber expensive. Who of you would part with £115 for a head gasket for example? Since there is less cost pressure, the quality overall is better. In general, Jeep owners look at the price - and assume it's rubbish if it's inexpensive! It makes pricing for both markets quite tricky!

Si

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I would say the Jeep parts are twice the price of the LR ones if you live in the UK.

David

A bit more than double .................

A rear brake disk for a defender is £11 ............ for a cherokee it is £85

A thermostat for a defender is £4 .................. for a cherokee it is £79 (same wax stat just built into a housing)

Dont know how much a timing belt kit is for a 300tdi ............. the cherokee 2.8 kit is £155 (belt + 2 idlers).

LR A frame ball joint £23 ............. cherokee A frame ball joint £76

However, I find Jeep parts last longer then LR parts ......... our cherokee is now on 160K and we have had it from new ......... uber reliable

[Les Henson]

Targeting Britpart (again ) - I don't extend any guarantee in their products, other than my standard of workmanship fiiting them. I think that Turner Engineering have a similar policy for Britpart parts.

Les.

[rtbarton]

Perhaps some parts are overpriced so we think they're good quality.

[Guest]

I run a small microbrewery and we have exactaly the same problem, people like the quality of the product but want to pay the same as they pay for Fosters etc.... and just don't understand that quality costs I think it is a modern day living, through away life style that we have all been pushed down that makes some people demand quality but will only pay peanuts... and you know what happens when you pay peanuts......

[FridgeFreezer]

I think a fair proportion of people are willing to pay for quality, the onus is however on the vendor to prove the quality which takes us back to the original point of this post.

I am happy to buy quality gear, but I'm not happy to take it on trust when parting with my hard earned, if you can't prove to me your product is as good as you say it is then I'm not buying.