Going to MS my 110...

[Andrew Cleland]

Afternoon all,

I've decided to bite the bullet and shift the 110 3.9 V8 over to Megasquirt and EDIS this summer, it's currently on Lucas Hotwire with a dizzy. The original reason was to get rid of the dizzy and sort out the timing which is wondering like a drunk dog at the moment. On top of that the exhaust is now starting to smell pretty rich and the idle has a habit of creeping up to around 1,200rpm, so rather than p*ss around with the Lucas trickery, it's all change. The engine is a pretty stock 3.9 V8, rebuilt last year with a +010thou rebore, mains and heads studs, new valve train etc. The only slightly fruity things are a Crower 50229 cam and a Double-S sports exhaust and tubular manifolds.

I've been PM'ing with Nige, who is sorting me out with the MS kit and various EDIS bits, so that's all fine, but rather than keep bombarding him with questions I thought I'd post these to give someone else a chance ;-)

1. Idle Air Valve. I have a 3-wire Bosch valve from a 4.6 Thor engine, but looking at the way MS handles this, with a 50W resistor to earth, I think a 2-wire valve that uses a spring instead of a second coil would be less trouble. Does anyone have experience of the 3-wire valve? Is it worth ebaying it and getting a 2-wire one?

2. Plug leads. I've got a set of Magnacore blue leads on the dizzy - can they be re-terminated or adapted to fit the EDIS coil packs?

3. Grounds. I get the impression the best practise is to ground everything to a common point. The MS manuals talk about the engine block, but is it better to go back to the battery negative? My MS will live next to the battery, fuses and relays, so easy enough to do.

4. EDIS module. I'm thinking that the VR signal is probably the weakest, so I was going to locate the EDIS module in the engine bay near to the VR sensor and run screened cable to the MS for the PIP/SAW or is better to run a longer cable from the VR to the EDIS and then short cables from EDIS to MS?

I've drawn a wiring diagram, attached, which I think shows everything (MS, EDIS, extra controls for the cooling fan, table switching for when I get LPG and an output for the tacho). The colours are a mix of MS and Lucas 14CUX, although I intend to replace all the wiring with new thinwall cable from VWP.

Cheers,

Andrew.

Edit to add: I'm probably going to do down the line of building the MS from kit, I've done a fair bit of electronics in the past, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Does anyone though have a Megastim/Jimstim they'd be interested in lending/renting for a week or two? Cheers, AC.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

1. 2-wire Bosch valve is about £5 from a scrappy. No idea what the 3 wire would fetch on the 'bay but worth a shot!

2. Yes, I think they can be re-terminated. I think FF did this with his leads before getting custom ones. I'm sure he'll be along in a min to clarify.

3. Ground all the sensors to the ECU, and then to the battery. I've also grounded to the block as well on mine.

4. Shouldn't really make much difference. The PIP/SAW signals are pretty robust, and the signals from the VR sensor I hear are in the 100's of volts. Mine is running through about 4m of (ahem, slightly dodgy) wiring without a problem.

[FridgeFreezer]

1. Sell it and find a 2-wire one

2. Sell 'em and buy a proper set from Fastlane, should end up in profit.

3. Ground all sensors back to the ECU, ground the ECU back to the battery.

4. PIP and SAW will be happier/less critical over long distances than VR signal.

[Andrew Cleland]

Thanks guys - I shall go visit the scrappy for a 2-wire valve and see about some Fastlane leads. Earthing and EDIS module as planned then.

AC.

[Paul_VR6]

I ground the battery directly the the engine (only) and then ground everything (sensors and MS) to a ground block attached to either the block or head. Many OEM's do it this way, and I've never had a problem doing it that way on quite a few MS installs.

The 2wire idle valves are much nicer to drive, if you can get one, that'd be the way I'd go.

There should be no SAW/PIP problems they're both square waves and are fairly large voltages. If you need to extend the main VR wires to the EDIS module, make sure you use shielded cable and extend it properly.

[Andrew Cleland]

Tomorrow morning I drop the family off at Stansted, which gives me Friday (day off), Saturday and Sunday to get the MS installed. Oh, and a new camshaft as well - Friday should see the cam in and the engine (hopefully) running with the new cam and the old Lucas injection/ignition before I start on the MS. Nothing like being optimistic with timings but the window of opportunity (family away) is small...

The unit is built and just about cleaned-up of thermal grease which my PCB cleaner spray decided to spread all over the board - grrrr. I'll be mounting the MS, EDIS, relays, fuses and other wiring bits onto a bit of ally sheet in the battery box, with all the wires to the engine coming out on three (engine, power, edis) AMP CPC connectors, so the whole MS/EDIS unit can be taken out and put back in by undoing three plugs and four thumbscrews. That's the idea at least. Eventually when it's all working I'll swap the ally sheet for a sealed diecast box, but they're quite pricey when you get up to the size you'd need, so one thing at a time. I've also added wires to the loom for valve blocks when I fit LPG in the future & separate wiring for each injector should I feel the urge to go sequential or Cadillac NorthStar-style '4 cylinder economy mode' if it can be done with MS.

A couple of photos to give Nige palpitations in the mean time - the wiring looms made-up and the connectors all wired-up. The 'engine ends' of all the wires are free with slack, so they can be cut to length, taped and terminated in situ. I like wiring me :-)

I've been looking around without much luck, so can anyone point me to information on adding cooling fan control and table switching to the MS - I can find how to wire the MS to the engine on the extraefi.co.uk pages, but not how to modify the ECU for these two items?

Cheers,

AndyC.

[FridgeFreezer]

Fan control & table switching are pretty easy, this is what I have to hand, I'll have a proper look when I get home.

[Andrew Cleland]

Fan control & table switching are pretty easy, this is what I have to hand, I'll have a proper look when I get home.

Thanks FF - that doesn't look too tricky. All this talk of 2N2222s and 1N1004s takes me back to a misspent youth - only need the good old BFY51 to really get going! ;-)

Cheers,

AndyC

[ThreeSheds]

2. Sell 'em and buy a proper set from Fastlane, should end up in profit.

I agree entirely!

I sat down one evening with all my old leads and a pile of Ford ones from the scrappy ready to change the EDIS style terminals over - two hours later I had ruined one and done two. The next day I ordered a bespoke set from Fastlane and two days later they arrived. Much easier and great quality.. Still using them four years later on a different motor

[zim]

You don't need custom HT leads.

Boothy showed me how the ealier escorts (i think it was them, maybe fiesta) have leads which are perfect - correct on both ends - just buy 2 sets.

G

[McS Junior]

uh huh.... So you're going to go to all the expense and effort of MS'ing the truck to then use crappy 2nd hand Ford HT leads that werent even any good when they were new....??? Buy right, buy once IMHO

Ross

[Andrew Cleland]

uh huh.... So you're going to go to all the expense and effort of MS'ing the truck to then use crappy 2nd hand Ford HT leads that werent even any good when they were new....??? Buy right, buy once IMHO

Ross

In the end I called Magnecor who were perfectly happy to re-terminate my existing leads with EDIS coil pack connectors for £30. Sent the leads off on Tuesday, got them back 4 days later with new EDIS connectors and they'd even cleaned the leads and plug boots. Pretty good service I thought.

AC.

P.S. I'm sure the Fastlane ones are fine as well, but as I had a less-than-year-old set of Magnecors...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

A couple of photos to give Nige palpitations in the mean time - the wiring looms made-up and the connectors all wired-up.

AndyC.

<shudder> Aaargh - 'Gods Knitting' <shudder>

I need to go lie down in a dark room now for a while

Nige

[zim]

uh huh.... So you're going to go to all the expense and effort of MS'ing the truck to then use crappy 2nd hand Ford HT leads that werent even any good when they were new....??? Buy right, buy once IMHO

Ross

Ross, was that aimed at my reply ? i was recommending buying new ones.

G

[Quagmire]

Not to start a war here but I have to say that I am well impressed with the OEM Ford leads. I have them on my Megajolt install. All are second hand having come with the various coilpacks that I bought on ebay, some are starting to perish but none are leaking sparks anywhere. I checked in the dark last night.

[Andrew Cleland]

The sleeper has awoken!

After three and a bit days effort (not including half a morning fannying around getting all the overnight rain out of the cylinders <grrr>) and two false starts the engine fired up on MS/EDIS this evening :-)

A few photos for your delights:

Fitting the trigger wheel to the crank pulley. I had to take the front of the engine apart to fit the new cam, which made doing the trigger wheel and the VR sensor a lot less of a struggle. The observent will notice deliberate mistake false start one - for some reason I had it in my head that the engine turned counter-clockwise, so the missing tooth is 5 teeth the wrong side of the VR sensor. I worked this out after trying to start the engine with EDIS in limp-home mode & hotwire injection and getting nowhere. One bit of advice for anyone fitting a trigger wheel is to have a cheap (i.e. thin walled) 13mm box spanner to undo the bolts that hold the pulley assembly together - there's a lip inside the pulley which makes clearance too tight to get a socket in but a skinny box key will fit and the 12mm end can be turned with a 15mm socket over the outside.

Looms all finished and ready to go. The biggy on the left is the engine harness, the smaller one is the EDIS harness, there's also a small power/dashboard/lambda harness, but it wasn't able to be there for the photo. The EDIS harness is covered in braided polyester sleeving, which I would use in preference to loom tape in the future - easier to use and more flexible. The two spare loops of wire in the engine harness are for a remote MAP sensor (so all the connections back to the ECUs are electrical and the ECU case will be fully sealed) and signal/power for LPG valve blocks in the future.

The MS and EDIS along with fuses and relays mounted on a sheet of (badly) bent ally. The wiring isn't quite as a gash as it looks here, honest! Once it's all up and running all these gubbins are going to go into a diecast ally box in the battery compartment, then it'll just be a case of undoing the three multiplugs and four thumbscrews to take out the whole ECU assembly.

The second snag was getting the PIP and SAW wires back-to-front. Once I looked in the log and saw no rpm signal, and knowing that the EDIS worked and the MS saw rpms from the stim, it was fairly easier to track the problem down to something between the two units.

I haven't plumbed in the idle air valve yet, mainly because the hose between the plenum and the throttle body is too small to fit over the volvo/bosch idle valve fittings, so I'll need to look into that. Would ³/₄" heater hose be rigid enough for this job? As such the engine idles at about 1400rpm when it's warming-up and this goes up to 1900rpm once the idle enrich light goes out. I'm not sure if this right, but until the idle valve is in, I'm not going to think about it too much.

Another thing which I'm not sure if it's right or not is FIdle/Spark light in Megatune flashes on and off a lot, as does the Output1/Boost light - should it do this?

Cheers,

AndyC.