locker advice

[denviks]

hi all.....

well i am not at the start of the process of looking for a diff locker. i am looking for veiws on what to go for to be honest, the pro's and cons.

i have had a look at the detroit type and like the idea of the no thought process of it. i am looking to do it as cheaply as possible too.

so any advice would be very welcome from YOU in the know

[mayur]

There are two main type ARB and KAM.

ARB is a direct fit but requires an air compressor

KAM requires abit of cutting and moding but the bonus is only requires electricy to work.

As for which is best I'm still desiding myself

[plasticbadger]

There are two main type ARB and KAM.

ARB is a direct fit but requires an air compressor

KAM requires abit of cutting and moding but the bonus is only requires electricy to work.

As for which is best I'm still desiding myself

Plus Detroit as mentioned by the OP. The Detroit is very popular in the states, but less so here. It has several advantages, one it's cheaper than the others, two it's fit and forget. No power supplies, air supplies or turning on and off to worry about. They can be annoying on the road in low speed maneouvering, plus I like the 100% knowledge that the locker is locked that you get with a selectable locker.

When looking at budget remember that, depending on use, you will need uprated halfshafts to go with the locker. KAM normally include this, but the others normally don't.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

IIRC Detriots Dave at Ashcroft used to sell, but stopped due to poor support when they needed it from Detroit ?

I may be wrong of course - not the 1st or last time if so

Nige

[scube]

I have a Detroit locker in the rear of my Range Rover and find it does what it says on the tin, very pleased with it. As Plasticbadger says it’s a fit and forget

You can hear it working when cocking the back leg but apart from that you would not know its there.

I wouldn’t have one fitted in the front as they tend to fight you when turning so when the ground gets slippery it wants to keep you going in a straight line, not so good

Another good thing about the Detroit is that it’s effectively locked all the time and only releases when unequal pressures builds to a point where the locker slowly releases and allows one of the wheels to turn. This in my view saves half shafts, transmission etc.

I have never snapped my standard halfshafts

I don’t think it of a cheap alternative to the air or electric locker just an alternative.

Air or electric lockers could be used when you are stuck and in my view that’s to late.

[M&S]

It also does depend a lot on your budget and intended use?

[Bowie69]

Don't forget the Truetrac, whilst not a locker, it is very highly thought of off-road, and importantly IMHO on road too. It's fit and forget like the Detroit Locker, but kinder to the drive train. Similar money to the Detroit Locker.

They also have a LOT less reported breakages.

[denviks]

it seems i have alot to consider now then.

i have started looking at the prices and that maybe the deciding factor for me to be honest. i had not considered a trutrak but will now have to add it to the list.

now i do like the look of the arb and the kam but i am afraid they are well out of my price range at the moment.

i want to fit one in the rear axle to keep me pushing along. i tend to run at slow speeds and think it would aid me when that wheel wants to lift and stop me dead.

so it looks like a detroit or tru trac

[crispyme]

If you're going to go trutrac (Torque biasing Differential isn't it??) Which I believe is the same as what Quaife do. You could consider KAM. As their system in modular, you can start off with the clutch based LSD system to get around with, see how you get on and then go and add the upgrade cost to make it a locker.

In my most humblest of oppinions, LSD are great for road and semi-tractive surfaces. So getting up a hill where you may lose traction on one of the wheels - Works a treat, On road - awsome... Going cross-axled - be prepared to be a little disapointed.

LSD's (which include the Quiafe ATB and trutrac) are there to Limit the amount of slip, they don't lock up the differential.

I have LSD's front and rear on the disco - think they're great but they are not the same as having lockers. I'm doing what I suggested and got the LSD's with the locking section on the differential, installed and ran with only LSD's while I save up to get the lockers. I spose there is a cost factor involved in lockers vs LSD's, but if you're like most of us, you will inevitably end up with lockers one day, just as I keep saying that my disco is fine on 33" tyres... I bet you any money that will end up with 35" some day...

[mayur]

arbs fit nicely in http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Discotech4.html

and you might get lucky http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290491954752&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

good luck

[M&S]

I run a truetrac and it is great, as above, fit and forget (and a good price to start with).

As stated abouve though, it isn't a true locker so if one wheel has no traction at all (ie is in the air) you can end up with an open diff. A light application of the brakes (or in my case the traction control) does help to sort this out though. On the road, in the snow, on muddy fields, and especially when towing, it is spot-on and I love it. Thinking of one for the front at some point, but that's for a different thread.

I didn't suggest it earlier because I was aware that it isn't a locker, hence asking about your use.

[mahon257]

I'm in the same place as you - starting to think about a locking diff...

However, I had to make a trip to the KAM factory/workshop a couple of weeks ago (picked up a recon'd axle for my Bruva's Defender). As I'd turned up in an expedition prep'd Disco, I think they looked at me as another potential customer! Anyway, a nice bloke called Simon gave me "the tour".

All I can say is... the KAM stuff looks the biz... You can engage the diff lock at speed (think up to 60 mph) - can you do that with the ARB? Also, was informed the MOD are fitting KAM diffs to Snatch LR's - which weigh over 4 tons with Armour... so clearly there's some decent engineering here...

I've never owned an ARB locker - but hear they are prone to breaking... (anyone got any experience of this?) ARB's cost £625 + a compressor for £185. So for one ARB diff you're talking £850.

The Kam Diff starts at £695 (592+VAT). So in theory, it's £150 cheaper.

As others have mentioned, you do have to cut out the Diff Cover, and replace with a bolt on... but I'm beginning to think it's worth the effort...

Price from here:

KAM Diff locker with aluminium diff protector guard £592 + vat

KAM Diff locker with aluminium diff protector guard plus LSD £722 + vat

When I've save me pennies up, I leaning towards a KAM on the rear axle.

[moose]

You can engage the diff lock at speed (think up to 60 mph)

you can.... but best not to do this on a high traction surface unless your into drifting

[crispyme]

You can engage the diff lock at speed (think up to 60 mph)

Like moose said, you can - but not advisable... if your on terrain that requires lockers, and your doing 60mph, you have some balls...!

But not only that, it won't do the diff a lot of favours. ARB and KAM can both cope with 'crash engagement' KAM suggest 5-10mph but thats to be safe. The diffs can probably cope with more than that, but the wear and fatigue it will cause will reduce the life of the diff... but that goes for any 'demand locking differential'

Eeyore

[mayur]

hi one silly question i come across is when you turn on your ARB on do you have to leave the compressor on or does a valve hold the pressure ? as if you have to leave the compressor on you wasting more then the KAM diff

[crispyme]

hi one silly question i come across is when you turn on your ARB on do you have to leave the compressor on or does a valve hold the pressure ? as if you have to leave the compressor on you wasting more then the KAM diff

After you turn the compressor on, it pumps and primes the system, then stops pumping. Occasionally when the pressure drops (espicially when you use the locker a lot of times under one 'charge')the compressor will kick in again to build up the pressure.. but a valve holds the pressure... or ties to...

The KAM system has something like a 40A 'burst' to activate the solenoid, and then a second or so after a 0.5A drain when the locker is engaged to hold the solenoid.

Eeyore

[denviks]

ok so now i am nearing the point where i know which one to go for.....

i have narrowed it down to the 2 options now.

its either a KAM locker.... just means more saving required and a longer wait

or

a trutrac which is a fit and forget lsd but know it can be used to great affect.

so maybe its time to start banging my head against the wall in the persuit of knowing the best course of action......will the wife kill me or not

[crispyme]

If you are going to go for an LSD and may want a locker later - get a KAM LSD with locking end flange fitted.

Give them a call - Talk to Nige - AKA Hybrid from hell (he's a bit of a pleb - but nice enough )

Eeyore

[denviks]

i can see a call happening soon

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

If you are going to go for an LSD and may want a locker later - get a KAM LSD with locking end flange fitted.

Give them a call - Talk to Nige - AKA Hybrid from hell (he's a bit of a pleb - but nice enough )

Eeyore

Hope that really bad agonizing wound you have heals soon

(The one you'll be getting tommorrow)

Nige

[mahon257]

Like moose said, you can - but not advisable... if your on terrain that requires lockers, and your doing 60mph, you have some balls...!

But not only that, it won't do the diff a lot of favours. ARB and KAM can both cope with 'crash engagement' KAM suggest 5-10mph but thats to be safe. The diffs can probably cope with more than that, but the wear and fatigue it will cause will reduce the life of the diff... but that goes for any 'demand locking differential'

Eeyore

good to know - thanks for the advice...!

I've changed both axle diff's on the disco in the last year (one from Rimmers for £450, one off fleebay for £60). They've both improved the drive train slack... but was planning to replace the £60 feebay one, eventually, with a locker. I certainly wasn't planning to do any crazy diff lock manouvres - but was really interested to know if there was a major design advantage between KAM v ARB's. Anyhoo.. now I know! So cheers for that.

[tuko]

ok so now i am nearing the point where i know which one to go for.....

i have narrowed it down to the 2 options now.

its either a KAM locker.... just means more saving required and a longer wait

or

a trutrac which is a fit and forget lsd but know it can be used to great affect.

so maybe its time to start banging my head against the wall in the persuit of knowing the best course of action......will the wife kill me or not

I've to pondered this very thing with my Hybrid for some time, till last week actually as I had ordered two Truetrac's. There are many in the Swedish Land Rover Club who run two Truetrac's that I've seen in action. The grip that they get especially when you watch two identical vehicles try the same obstacle is just amazing.

The idea of fit & forget and everyday drive ability were two factors that encouraged this buy. Plus another driving factor is price, shop around! The American dollar is very low against any European currency and it's wise to see what you can get over there. I bought my two Truetrac's in the states where the price was just about even with the purchase of one from England. Then if I compared the price to here, it was half of one.

Todd.

[tuko]

ok so now i am nearing the point where i know which one to go for.....

i have narrowed it down to the 2 options now.

its either a KAM locker.... just means more saving required and a longer wait

or

a trutrac which is a fit and forget lsd but know it can be used to great affect.

so maybe its time to start banging my head against the wall in the persuit of knowing the best course of action......will the wife kill me or not

I've to pondered this very thing with my Hybrid for some time, till last week actually as I had ordered two Truetrac's. There are many in the Swedish Land Rover Club who run two Truetrac's that I've seen in action. The grip that they get especially when you watch two identical vehicles try the same obstacle is just amazing.

The idea of fit & forget and everyday drive ability were two factors that encouraged this buy. Plus another driving factor is price, shop around! The American dollar is very low against any European currency and it's wise to see what you can get over there. I bought my two Truetrac's in the states where the price was just about even with the purchase of one from England. Then if I compared the price to here, it was half of one.

Todd.

SORRY, Double post.....please delete this one.

[mayur]

I'm wondering can you get an ARB diff cover for a disco otherwise kams nicer choice

Also wonder how much would the KAM locksble diff would be without the locker as it would be a nice option and means I can have an LSD while I save for the rest

[M&S]

I've to pondered this very thing with my Hybrid for some time, till last week actually as I had ordered two Truetrac's. There are many in the Swedish Land Rover Club who run two Truetrac's that I've seen in action. The grip that they get especially when you watch two identical vehicles try the same obstacle is just amazing.

The idea of fit & forget and everyday drive ability were two factors that encouraged this buy. Plus another driving factor is price, shop around! The American dollar is very low against any European currency and it's wise to see what you can get over there. I bought my two Truetrac's in the states where the price was just about even with the purchase of one from England. Then if I compared the price to here, it was half of one.

Todd.

I totally agree with your comments above, although I haven't seen anyone running one in the front yet. I'd be very interested to know how you get on with this set-up as I am considering adding another Truetrac to the front of my Disco. I'm mostly concerned how it will alter things on the road.