Ian Barrett Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I've got to the stage now where I can reconnect the wiring after repairing the chassis where the wiring for the back of the car exits the chassis. I carefully labelled every wire before cutting them (as I'm colourblind) but I wish I'd read the Rear Crossmember Replacement thread in the Tech Archive first as Les has the smart idea of cutting them at 1 inch intervals to avoid having a huge lump where they all join. Still, I can't be smart all the time eh. The thing Les doesn't mention is how he reconnects and ensures they are waterproof afterwards. I'm thinking of soldering and using heatshrink, then self amalgamating tape to keep the big ball of joints down and run the whole lot in plastic conduit to avoid chaffing. The disadvantage here though is if I get something wrong in the reconnecting. Is there an alternative or does that sound like the best solution and I should just make sure I do it right first time Thanks IanB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I've got to the stage now where I can reconnect the wiring after repairing the chassis where the wiring for the back of the car exits the chassis. I carefully labelled every wire before cutting them (as I'm colourblind) but I wish I'd read the Rear Crossmember Replacement thread in the Tech Archive first as Les has the smart idea of cutting them at 1 inch intervals to avoid having a huge lump where they all join. Still, I can't be smart all the time eh. The thing Les doesn't mention is how he reconnects and ensures they are waterproof afterwards. I'm thinking of soldering and using heatshrink, then self amalgamating tape to keep the big ball of joints down and run the whole lot in plastic conduit to avoid chaffing. The disadvantage here though is if I get something wrong in the reconnecting. Is there an alternative or does that sound like the best solution and I should just make sure I do it right first time Thanks IanB Sounds right - you could avoid the ball of self amal by using glue lined heatshrink - you can get it on line and it makes a waterproof seal. Then test it, and wrap it in non sticky PVC loom tape. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 OK, forget that. I found a thread with a discussion about glued heat shrink etc http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=35206&st=0&p=338927&hl=heatshrink&fromsearch=1entry338927 VWP sell glued heatshrink that starts at 3.2mm and shrinks to 1/3 original size, so that sounds like the stuff for me. So now there is there is just the issue of how to reconnect the wires in the first place. As I have space to work is it best to solder them together then heatshrink, or get some crimp connectors and heatshrink of the correct size for this job (since I need 13) rather than using the generic blue connectors with the hard plastic insulation which I have in the garage. If I use connectors it means I have to be more careful about what heatshrink I order to ensure the heatshrink not only covers the connector but also shrinks to the wire too. Hence the question, in case you thought I was still being a numpty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Sorry Gazzar, we overlapped there. So I might have been on the right track in the first place then, thats handy because I can nip to Maplin to get the glued heatshrink. Don't have any non sticky PVC loom tape though but I do already have some of the "flexible convoluted tubing" (plastic stuff with a slit in it) which I guess is even better no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I would solder and heatshrink and get the connections right the frist time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I'm out of step here. I would use Lucar connectors crimped and soldered with the correct cover. VWP also sell male Lucar conner blocks of three or four connections. I'd also be careful about haveing the wires too tightley wraped as you could get condensation in there. I assume you are repairing the connectors at the inside behind the tail lights ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I solder and heat shrink the wires. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I assume you are repairing the connectors at the inside behind the tail lights ? No, and that is the problem. I had to cut the wires as they came out of the chassis rail, because there is a split in the wires not far after to send some to the Offside lights and some across the rear cross member to the NS lights Because of the place they are cut they need to be joined in a way which is both secure and waterproof. Much as my truck has been a garage queen for the last few years I might want to go dip a toe in something dirty one day again so it needs to be ready just in case. Maplin were useless, they dont have glued heatshrink in the store. I bought some not-glued stuff though seeing as how I was there, and some new tips for my gasless soldering iron to make life nice and easy. So it looks like I'll be ordering glued heatshrink from VWP and the job can wait a couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I use these: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3662831 (RS #366-2831 if the link don't work) Bag of 100 pre-cut very good quality glue-lined 3:1 sleeves (there are a range of sizes & clear ones available). If you're colour-blind there are plenty of good ways of marking cables - again, RS sell various sticky/heat-shink/clip-on/slide-on cable ident markers printed clearly with numbers, letters, symbols, for example: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6642871 I keep a sheet or two around for those times when you have several of the same colour wires (eg a load of black ground wires) and want to differentiate them. When I was on BT they had great little collets numbered 0-100 in a bag which were very handy, I gave my spares to another colour-blind chap who wired his whole landy in red & black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I see Ian that it's easier to cut the wires than it is to undo the bullit connectors inside the vehicle to remove th wiring loom. I'll remember that ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 But then you have 3ft of cable to shove back down the chassis so it isn't baked by the welding, rather than 6in. Anyway, that was my excuse and I'm sticking to it. But maybe a lesson learned eh Actually, you've got me thinking now. I had a garage replace the rear crossmember a few years ago and I don't know what they did with the wiring. I wonder if there is a big ball of stuff jammed into the crossmember somewhere. Oh ****. See what you've done now Mike. I won't be able to sleep tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Ian A suggestion Look for a rear loom. No rush. Take it down the outside of the chassis. Where the loom has all those bullit connectors at the rear lights. Change those to Lucar connectors. You will be able to sleep sound every night then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think that some 90's had 110 wiring looms fitted as a few that I have done have had 18-inches or more loom stuffed inside the chassis. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think that some 90's had 110 wiring looms fitted as a few that I have done have had 18-inches or more loom stuffed inside the chassis. Les. That's unusual Les. Most looms are made with the shortest wire length possible. Nothing to cut off if you need to repair it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Land Rover using the parts they had I would imagine, to get vehicles out of the factory and save them sitting around waiting for 90" looms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS888 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I did this a few months back, and I soldered and shrink wrapped. It's not that many wires, you'll get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Just a thought while on about soldering wiring in the car There is a school of thought that you shouldn't solder any wires in a car because it maked the joint brittle, leading to breakage. Now I've crimped and soldered for XXXX years than I care to remember. I've not come across this. My Defender is wired in that way. I would have thought that the corrugated roads I've used would have shewn it up. Anybody care to comment ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I've also heard the same Mike which is part of the reason I asked the question. Is it that if you use connectors and they are crimped and come undone it is obvious as they pull apart, whereas if they are soldered and the joint breaks its not obvious because the lump of solder stops the wire pulling out of the connector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS888 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I would expect more problems with solder on something semi-rigid, like a circuit board, from vibration and temperature contraction/expansion of unlike materials. Failed solder joints are a fairly common problem in older ECU's for this reason. I've never heard of problems with soldered wire connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I would expect more problems with solder on something semi-rigid, like a circuit board, from vibration and temperature contraction/expansion of unlike materials. Failed solder joints are a fairly common problem in older ECU's for this reason. I've never heard of problems with soldered wire connections. An alternative, which I've used the odd time, is to twist the wires together, then solder, then seal. It's easier, as the twist holds the wires together for the solder, but less tidy. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Sorry for hi-jacking your post Ian.... Gazzer. Many years ago an Austrailian Jack Brabham and a New Zealander Bruce McLaren came to this country as "works" drivers for Cooper Cars. Both also had their "private" F2 car which they each bulit at the works. They were preparing their cars. Jack took the kill wired down the chassis and joined it with bullit connectors. Bruce said naw..Twisted the wires toghter and taped them. Then taped the lot to the chassis. Bruce finished without any problems. Jack retired, the ign wires undone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I think that some 90's had 110 wiring looms fitted as a few that I have done have had 18-inches or more loom stuffed inside the chassis. Les. My 90 is like that - at least 18" too much, quite difficult to stuff it all back in. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 There's a lot of urban legend surrounding this, of course people on the internet like to take sides and argue about it, usually from a point of total ignorance and without understanding how either method really works or what the pros and cons are - I just googled and read a post from someone claiming aerospace/medical/military NEVER use soldered joints and the next post was someone saying they ALWAYS use soldered joints... neither are right, everyone uses what's right for a particular application. The reality is that on an old Land Rover either will be fine if done correctly, and both will fail if done to the usual standard of LR owners when faced with electrics. If you don't need to get the wires apart again, solder & glue-lined heatshrink will give a smaller joint that's completely sealed and at least as resistant to vibration as a crimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Barrett Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Having failed to find glued heatshrink locally I've given in and ordered it from VWP so I'll solder and heatshrink these joins when it arrives. I'll let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Sorry for hi-jacking your post Ian.... Gazzer. Many years ago an Austrailian Jack Brabham and a New Zealander Bruce McLaren came to this country as "works" drivers for Cooper Cars. Both also had their "private" F2 car which they each bulit at the works. They were preparing their cars. Jack took the kill wired down the chassis and joined it with bullit connectors. Bruce said naw..Twisted the wires toghter and taped them. Then taped the lot to the chassis. Bruce finished without any problems. Jack retired, the ign wires undone. Funny! Always amusing the old stories from the days of yore. I once worked at a rally car prep place - a works team, and the hours they spend rebuilding looms with lightweight wiring, pure spaghetti, on a bench, all for a few kgs of copper! Anyway - I was advocating, as a decent bodge, to twist AND SOLDER the cables, as I've found that it can be a pig to solder the wires together any other way - just holding them together whilst soldering can be difficult. Then heatshrink the twist and finally fold the twist flush, and heatshrink that, with the bigger heatshrink you've shoved down one wire beforehand. Bit more bulky, and not as neat, but easier, and possibly more robust. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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