Power steering conversion

[Landy-Novice]

hello all, i know there's load of these topics but i need one for me, not a million other people. i got a 2-2a and idea is p38 box, pump, lower shaft and i was wondering would original and p38 shafts mate together with no mods? and where i could get a new custom (longer ) drag link/arm? and i need dimensions on where to mount the box and how to make the pump bracket , i have seen some web sites on this thing but not enough information!! can you help me please

[moore101]

and i was wondering would original and p38 shafts mate together with no mods?

What shafts do you mean there?

and where i could get a new custom (longer ) drag link/arm?

Buy a heavy duty item longer than needed (rangerover for example) then take it to your local machine shop and they'll be able to shorten it for you. Editing your profile to show a rough location will help us point you to the right place. If you're near me i've currently got the correct tap for doing the RH thread so could sort an arm the correct length out for a small fee.

and i need dimensions on where to mount the box and how to make the pump bracket

Dimensions for mounting the box as far as i know wont be available as, like someone's already said, every installation seems to be different. As for the pump bracket, someone should be able to provide further info on this but a diesel pump bracket could be the best starting point to modify as the basic engine block is the same as the 2.25petrol?

[FridgeFreezer]

p38 box - Presumably mounted on the outside of the chassis rail then?

pump - There are easier-fit pumps from Defenders which will bolt to your engine, the P38 one is likely to be serpentine-belt and may even spin the wrong way.

lower shaft - as in steering column? You may need the lower UJ if the P38 box input is different, otherwise a Defender column & lower shaft are what you want as they bolt in and should be damn close to where the steering box needs to live.

and i was wondering would original and p38 shafts mate together with no mods? - Dunno, have a fish round eBay or sodbury etc. and see if you can work it out, that's what I did mating D2 to Defender to Series.

and where i could get a new custom (longer ) drag link/arm? - Would you need one?

and i need dimensions on where to mount the box - Can't help with that, aside from the advice about columns above.

and how to make the pump bracket - Mostly "so it fits" is the answer, a look at a couple of other brackets should give you a reasonable clue.

Without wishing to sound unkind, there is a level of competence required to do something as safety-critical as this, you have to be able to weld & fabricate to a high standard, and people are perhaps rightly apprehensive about this as the questions you are asking do not give the impression that this is the case. I'm not saying don't do it, because we all have to start somewhere and doing stuff is how we develop these skills, but you may want to undertake some less critical projects as a buildup to this.

[Landy-Novice]

hand on, ill redo that........

answer about the skills... i no im only 16! but i can weld/fabricate and at the end of the day its only a land rover...

1; i need to keep column the same so from the inside it looks original and series to defender to p38 box work??

2; drag link, the original is from ball joint to front cross-member, new one needs to be ball joint to out side of rail, i estimate old would be about 9-10 inches short

3 defender pump to box pipes, can that be done?

4; and i have been looking at there's for ideas;

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/PowerSteering.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP7kIG7FfxU not the same as me, but similar situation cheers for the info aswell

[FridgeFreezer]

but i can weld/fabricate - I'm sure you can, but you are not yet a Jedi otherwise you wouldn't be on here asking us to draw you a picture.

and at the end of the day its only a land rover... - No, at the end of the day IT'S YOUR F***ING STEERING, alongside the brakes it's about the most critical thing on the car. Next time you're bumping along at 50mph ask yourself exactly what you'd do if suddenly your steering wheel wasn't connected to anything, and then ask yourself just how confident you are that your engineering & fabrication is as good or better than factory spec. What about after 20,000 miles of bumping over potholes, offroad abuse, emergency stops, swerving to avoid an accident? I know you're 16 and hence indestructible, but the flipside (as we have seen in a recent tragic case) is that you bodge it up and take your family for a ride up the road and you end up in jail and the rest end up dead.

1; i need to keep column the same so from the inside it looks original - defender column does this, you can't really use the Series column as it moves an arm rather than turn a shaft.

and series to defender to p38 box work?? - Can you re-phrase that in the form of a question?

2; drag link, the original is from ball joint to front cross-member, new one needs to be ball joint to out side of rail, i estimate old would be about 9-10 inches short - Either you need a custom one made, or you need some chunk bar & a big drill & tap (and maybe a left-handed tap too if you're being really original about it).

3 defender pump to box pipes, can that be done? - Anything can be done. Ask your local hydraulics shop, my pipes cost ~£25 all in.

[stuck]

"and at the end of the day it's only a Land Rover"

Ah, that will be the thing thing that "only" weighs two tonnes and if used typically will "only" have to take more shock loads through the steering system than 99% of the vehicles on the road.

I'm not taking the urine mate, but as Fridge has indicated I think you should consider should I before can I.

HTH's

Mick.

[Landy-Novice]

<........ and cheers, some good info there and the rephrase, in the vid above, he uses the orignal column, but will the defender mate with the p38 box???

[FridgeFreezer]

but will the defender mate with the p38 box???

OK, you've asked that about 5 times now and got no reply, so it may be safe to assume that no-one knows (out of the vast number of people who've done this exact conversion )

Here's some suggestions:

- Get on eBay and seek out any old defender & P38 bits for £cheap, and then see for yourself.

- Look in the technical archive, download the electronic parts catalogue and see if any of the part numbers match up.

- Find a mate with a Defender and a mate with a P38 (joining a LR club can help with this), ask nicely and have a looksee/measure.

- Speak nicely to the parts counter guy at your local independent to see if you can have a look in his boxes for free.

[Gazzar]

I suppose it got lost in the traffic.

Use the return key after each "bit" of your question.

My answer is "I think so". The defender column lower output has a splined end, as does the P38a input shaft. I believe they are the same, but haven't got a defender shaft to compare.

The bit between the two is usually a single shaft, and they may come in different lengths, some of which have a sideways slip collapseable centre section.

You may find one that fits exactly, from a defender, from a disco, from a RRC or from a P38a.

As the experienced people on here say, this isn't a very common modification, so you are out on your own a bit. We will follow with interest, though, as I reckon it is a good option, and started a similar project a while ago - abandoned, because I'm emigrating to the UK, but I will try again when I'm set up over there.

As a question, why are you fitting PAS? When rolling, the landrover steering is very light. Do you have very wide tyres? Check the steering relay for oil.

G.

[SeriesEwan]

As a question, why are you fitting PAS? When rolling, the landrover steering is very light. Do you have very wide tyres? Check the steering relay for oil.

a very valid point....also check the steering box for oil / internal evils & wear

[Landy-Novice]

cheers for gettin back to me, and i might work out what i need get dimensions, see if it works, and tell everyone on here to help them............. well i aint looked the the levels but i have wide tires and its Cronin! so if i buy a defender column and shaft and p38 box, that should all work?? wat the steering wheel fixin like on the defender column compared to the series ??? and if so, it time to raid ebay hahaha

[FridgeFreezer]

so if i buy a defender column and shaft and p38 box, that should all work?? - No-one's said that yet. P38 box is the unknown thing here. D2 box has a different spline to the RRC/Disco/Defender boxes, P38 may too. Innit y'know LOL.

wat the steering wheel fixin like on the defender column compared to the series??? - Different, but there's plenty of wheels that will fit. Fo'schnizzle, homie.

[Landy-Novice]

could i mate defender shaft to p38, is it a case of swoppin a uj??

[Landy-Novice]

or wat if i just use a defender steering box?? that would just save alot of kerfuffle!!!! but wat pump could i use that will work with the series fan belt? jamees

[SeriesEwan]

Now by all means swat me down & call me silly, But I am looking at the bigger picture here

Your wanting power steering in a series II

your also wanting said series II to go faster by modifying carbs etc

Do you really want a defender? its faster(ish) but ish is more than you will get out of an old 2286 and you can get one with PAS... If so then sell the series & buy a defender simples

plus your only 16 so I am guessing you will want to be learning to drive ( legally on the roads that is ) sometime soon. Nothing wrong with doing it in a series landy its a fine vehicle to learn to drive in ( and a series does teach you a lot of respect for the road too ) but have you thought about getting insurance at 17 with a MODIFIED car?

stock landy will be cheap as chips to insure,(well in the bigger picture anyway the first few years WILL sting but that's inevitable) once you start modding & tweaking then it gives insurance companies an excuse to have you over a barrel

[tuko]

Man is this thread painful to read!

Hej Mr. Novice, can you please use the search button, you'll find that this topic has been covered many times before and if you actually looked you would have seen on the same page listing, that very topic was covered as recently as few days ago. Your comments and questions are no different than any other here. Also consider Google, you'll see that there are more posts on other forums regarding this conversion, including a good one over at Rovers North. ...... invest some time into research, you'll find that your questions have been answered many times over.

As for your comment "it's only a Land Rover" come on little man think about that for a minute. It's not just your life that you are putting in your hands, but also the other road users around you and pedestrians. You just can't think that I can slap a steering box on the frame and go, it's a death trap/accident waiting to happen. I for one would never put my life in the hands 16 years old who claims that he knows how to weld. Experience and knowledge is paramount here, don't try this without proper parental/expert guidance.

Good Luck!

[Landy-Novice]

i do want a defender but ill never get one! if i sold mine, i would be on a huge loss and insure is cheap??? try £3500 for a '68 s11 no mods now tell me thats not over a barrel???

[Bowie69]

Or what if you go and try it yourself?

No-one here seems to have the answers to your specific questions, Fridge put it well when he said about going round old sodbury or trawling ebay for cheap parts and just giving it a go -that's where real knowledge comes from.

And yes, posting back if you succeed is a great idea, otherwise forums would be full useless questions and no answers!

[SeriesEwan]

i do want a defender but ill never get one! if i sold mine, i would be on a huge loss and insure is cheap??? try £3500 for a '68 s11 no mods now tell me thats not over a barrel???

JEEZUS that is crazy talk!! is that a streight up 3rd party fire theft? have you got limited annual mileage? is it a classic policy? I feel for you with that one mate

[FridgeFreezer]

or wat if i just use a defender steering box?? that would just save alot of kerfuffle!! - f*** me, have you just thought of that rather than all this P38 stuff then? Y'know, doing it the obvious and easy way that 99% of people do...

oh reli, can you give me the links for these other sites please - www.lmgtfy.com

Ewan has it bang on, once you've got more power you'll be asking about disc brakes and then probably coil springs... work out what you want to end up with and the easiest way to get there, modding a Series into a Defender is not trivial and you end up ruining a straight Series and having the hassle of it being a modified vehicle rather than just a standard Defender. If you haven't already phoned your insurance company about modifying the Series I suggest you get a quote BEFORE you get the spanners out.

Why would you make a big loss selling the Series (unless you've ruined it with modifications / abuse)? Would a Defender be any more to buy/insure? Series are if anything worth more these days than old defenders. I suspect you'd pay the same to insure anything regardless.

[Landy-Novice]

i changed my mine about the defender box because they bad quility, so back to the p38 box and the only mods are.. k&n filter, parbolics and shocks but the body is tatty and it needs a paint job, its cost me around £2500 and its looks like a £750 ebay job!

[Bowie69]

Right, so go find out how to do a PAS conversion by trying it, but ring your insurance company before, as it will be a modification.

[Daan]

unecesarry chat & swearing removed.

Play nice and on topic, chaps.

Daan

[FridgeFreezer]

i changed my mine about the defender box because they bad quility - that's funny, a million or so Defenders, Discos, RRC's are out there running those boxes and they seem to work OK for them...

k&n filter, - I thought Max Power had gone out of print? Ho hum...

the body is tatty and it needs a paint job - Depends what your view is of what a land rover should look like really.

[rusty_wingnut]

I don't think modifying it is going to help your insurance.

I think the Freezer is right here, if your only 16 and undertaking a PS conversion you may be a little lightweight in the engineering experience required. I don't class myself a quality fabricator but I am an engineer and there is a shed load of things to take into consideration when doing this. It's not a simple case of chop the chassis and bolt the box, and it'll be ok because I can weld with my SIP migmate 140 .

PS isn't necessary anyway unless you're running massive tyres, the trick is to keep the vehicle rolling when turning the steering - it becomes alot easier than trying to turn the wheel stationary.