Mo Murphy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm led to believe today that if one uses the aftermarket "heavy duty" type drive flanges with the screw on cap (like these) then the alloy wheel centre caps will fit as the nut doesn't stick out as far as the the plastic end cap. Has anyone tried this and found it to be the case ? I know all about the other issues of fitting alloys to an early axle so save your fingertips Cheers Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm led to believe today that if one uses the aftermarket "heavy duty" type drive flanges with the screw on cap (like these) then the alloy wheel centre caps will fit as the nut doesn't stick out as far as the the plastic end cap. Has anyone tried this and found it to be the case ? I know all about the other issues of fitting alloys to an early axle so save your fingertips Cheers Mo Don't know about the copy ones but the old Maxi Drive ones , who were the first to do them. Had two different types one for alloys and one for steels. The problem was not with the length so much but the width. The alloy one were more trimmed around the edges than the steel ones Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think you will find they stick out just as far. It isn't the cap but the thickness of the drive-flange that causes the problems, the drive-flange is commonly known as thick (early) or thin (late). If you want to fit the centre-caps (and they look pants without) then fit spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I can confirm the thick flanges don't allow alloys to be fitted, not sure about the thin ones. As said, it's not the centre cap, but the seating on the hub that causes the problem as the rim can't fit over the flange far enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thank you for your replies, although I don't know why I bothered with the last sentance of my original post. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I looked into this extensively because I have a set of alloys and a 110 Salisbury axle for my 109 (the Discovery front axle is already set up for alloys). You have two problems - the hub and the black plastic cone. The hub is deeper on the older axles as the wheel bearings are set further apart. That means that the hub protrudes further from the wheel mating face. There is a very small bevel on the hub between the drive flange between each of the drive flange fixing bolts, but that bevel isn't deep enough to allow LR alloys - it hits the interior of the wheel and hold the wheel about 4mm off the mounting face. I used 6mm spacer made from the centres of scrap brake drums to overcome that problem, but then you run into the problem of the studs - with the wheels 6mm further out, the nuts have 6mm less thread engagement, which could be dangerous. I fitted a full set of Wolf studs to the axle, but they're 12mm longer and prevent the nuts from full tightening down onto the wheel - they run out of internal thread about 3mm short. another set of the steel washers fitted to alloy wheel nuts should do the trick, as would shortening the studs by the offending amount. The next problem, once the wheel centre clears the hub and bolts in correctly, is the plastic cone. It's not just the cone that protrudes through the wheel centre though - it's also the nose of the drive flange and the end of the half shaft. I found that the drive flanges' nose sits flush with the outer face of the RRC wheels I am using (Boost and Deep Dish may differ), which would be enough to prevent centre cap fitting alone, but the shafts protrude a further 6-7mm. My solution has been to have the nose and shaft machined down , bevelled to create a V around their splined joint on the outer end and then TIG welded, with the whole assemble shortened to clear the inside of the centre caps. The aim was to make the Salisbury shafts and flanges similar to those on a 300Tdi Rover rear axle, with the 6mm spacers making so small a track alteration that the difference between it and the front axle would be invisible. All of the above is not a cheap fix, and using off-the-shelf 30mm spacers would be cheaper and easier, but I don't want my wheels that far outboard because I don't like the aesthetic, the paint damage of the heavier steering it gives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm just fitting 300Tdi hubs/stubs and shafts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thank you for your replies, although I don't know why I bothered with the last sentance of my original post. Mo I can't help you Mo, I just felt compelled to waste some finger power to mock those who didn't read your OP I believe you still don't have your answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thank you for your replies, although I don't know why I bothered with the last sentance of my original post. Mo Well, if you can't even get the rim to seat properly, how will you ever know if the centre cap will fit or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I can't help you Mo, I just felt compelled to waste some finger power to mock those who didn't read your OP I believe you still don't have your answer... Actually, the answer was in my post - as I said, the half shafts stick out through the wheel centre even if the plastic cones are removed, so the hexagonal cap of the HD flanges will protrude from the centre of the wheel. However, the HD flanges would need some trimming to allow the wheel to fit onto the hub - they'd need to be trimmed to have a similar profile as the original flanges between the five bolt holes as the the inside of the wheel will foul the flanges' straight edges. The HD flanges' centre caps will fit through the cap hole, though, and if chrome plated, might not look too bad (they'd resemble the wheel nuts, after all). Still, it's a lot of fiddling and not a very viable solution. Spacers are the easiest solution if you have PAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm just fitting 300Tdi hubs/stubs and shafts That's certainly the easiest way if you can get the parts cheaply enough. I was initially doing the same, but the shaft and flange splines were wrecked, needing brand new replacements. I decided to keep the stronger early shafts and flanges, with their stronger hub bearing arrangement (the wider spacing helps the bearings deal with side loads from cornering or side slopes better, but it can't make an enormous difference if all the late models went over to the narrow set up), since I already had a full set of good parts. As long as you remove the seals from inside the 300 stub axles and use RTV sealant to semi-permanently bond the plastic centre cone to the drive flange, spline wear shouldn't be as rapid as usual on the late axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thanks chaps, having recently rebuilt the axle with new parts I'm not keen on spending all over again Looks like the modulars will get a lick of paint instead ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Mo, it might be worth asking over in the Disco/Rangie forum to see if anyone has fitted the HD flanges under the stock alloys....? In fact, cos I am nice occasionally, I had a look on Paddocks to see if they listed them for the RRC, and they do, and they look much narrower (as they are in stock form): http://www.paddockspares.com/heavy-duty-drive-flanges-pair-4485.html *maybe* this is a solution, though I am not a flange-guru so could well be wrong Nothing to stop you trimming the shaft length either I suppose....? Depends how custom you want to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Mo, it might be worth asking over in the Disco/Rangie forum to see if anyone has fitted the HD flanges under the stock alloys....? In fact, cos I am nice occasionally, I had a look on Paddocks to see if they listed them for the RRC, and they do, and they look much narrower (as they are in stock form): http://www.paddockspares.com/heavy-duty-drive-flanges-pair-4485.html *maybe* this is a solution, though I am not a flange-guru so could well be wrong Nothing to stop you trimming the shaft length either I suppose....? Depends how custom you want to go The HD flanges come in two versions - the thick 200Tdi and earlier version and the thin 300Tdi and later version. They are a direct replacement for whichever type of standard drive flange you have on your vehicle and are not inter-changeable. The 300Tdi+ type do fit easily under alloys, just like the original flanges do on those axles (I have a pair on my RRC), but as I said, the early type will not fit without a lot of modification or spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Roger, thanks for clearing that up, just occured to me it may have worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Thanks for taking the time with your answers and suggestions chaps, all appreciated Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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