Dads Toy Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 As it's summer(?) I decided it would be a good idea to sort out the heater set up as per Western's advice from some time ago. Sure enough the cables were out of adjustment but whilst investigating the flaps under the dash there was a sudden twang and the flap on the passenger side no longer moves. From what I can find, it seems the flaps are held onto a rod by a clip but how do I get at it? I just know you're going to tell me the whole of the dash/parcel shelf/crash pad/wiper motor is going to have to come off (and maybe the engine/gearbox as well as the air freshener on the mirror) to be able to even see the problem. Tell me there's a nice simple way to get to it - always the optimist. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 no there isn't a simple way to get at the footwell flap rod, as you've rightly guessed it's a dash strip down. scroll to page 693 to get a idea of the set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Has the cable broken? Or do you think something else has come loose? There may be hope, but it involves cursing and cut fingers to avoid removing the dash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Nope, It's just the one flap that's not working, the cable seems fine as the other one opens and closes with the lever. Last time I took the whole instrument console off I found a half crown piece! Maybe there's more down there. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I've had similar when i was trying to out some camping mat on the flaps to help them seal better when closed. I was too rough and the spring (number 7 if you look at Ralphs link on page 693) had come off and the rod holding the flap had come loose out of the curved clip it sits in. You can fix this without taking the dash out, but it is very fiddly. Have a look at the attached diagram (i apologise for my artwork, i am no artist!). Pic 1 and 2 are cross sections of the heater box and how the spring (number 7 in the parts book) and the flap attach. Pic 1 is the spring in place, the rod not in place, Pic 2 is the spring and rod in place. Pic 3 is the view as i imagine it from the inside of the heater box (with everything in place. I had a good feel in the hole to get a good idea of where all of these bits are. My fingers wouldnt reach the top flap of metal that the top of the spring sits under (this description is not supposed to sound so dodgy!), but they could feel the bit that the lump in the spring locates on. If you are careful, you can manouvre a spring into place between two fingers. The difficulty is then getting the rod that holds the flap back onto the curved bit it sits on whilst holding the damn spring in place. I nearly gave up with this at this stage. Eventually, i drilled the heater flap and screwed a self tapping screw into it. This meant that it could sit out of the way of my hand whilst i got the spring into place and then, with a pair of slender mole grips (or even better artery forceps) i could grab the self tapping screw and pull the flap over, onto the spring and pull the flap and rod into the curve hinge piece it sits in. I hope that helps a bit. I faffed for ages figuring this out, but it has to be easier than removing the dash. My hand was a bit cut up when i had finished though! The springs come in packs of 5 i think, which is useful if you drop one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just to add. Pic 3 makes out that the spring is the bulkhead side of the rod, it is not, it sits tight against the heater box as in pic 2. It is held there tightly by the rod attached to the heater flap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thanks Reb, I think I'll give your way a go first, then if the swearing gets too much for the neighbours I'll take the whole lot apart! At least you've given me an idea how it fits together rather than just the parts diagram. What intrigues me at the moment is the flap is firmly shut and under tension, I'd have expected it to be floating free. From your diagrams it seems the rod has somehow come loose and the spring holds it shut. I guess all will be revealed shortly! Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well Sunday morning so I started to look at the problem - Reb, how on earth did you manage to get your hands anywhere near the spring etc? After 5 mins of thinking a double jointed gibbon might be able to do it I gave up that idea and set about de-constructing. Basically the aim is to get the black plastic parcel shelf out and then you can get to the 19 screws that hold the top of the air distribution box on. So it was steering column shroud off, instrument panel and cowl off, grab handle and crash pad off, wiper motor cover off and in my case the Iron Goat console and switches off then the grey plastic trim on the bulkhead off, inevitably breaking the little plastic plugs. and finally the plastic parcel shelf off. Eventually I got to the cover and decided to start at the passenger end in the hope that I could loosen enough of the top to lift it and see what had happened. That plan went well until I lifted it up and saw the flap at the passenger end was all in situ, but pulling the cable showed the problem was at the drivers end, almost out of sight - and the last screws are underneath the wiring harness where it goes under the cowl and is tight. Eventually I got the lid completely off and voila! The spring had come off stopping the mechanism from working and it looks like it's not the first time as there was an extra spring lying in the bottom. I've decided to put new one's in as it's not something I want to do again and the old one's look fairly rusty. Whilst I was in there i checked the flap that shuts the air off (left hand lever) and that works fine having adjusted it from the outside recently. I also noticed that there is no way that you can't get air to the screen, the flaps only open/shut the vents under the lower panel - there is nothing to shut the feed to the screen vents. I can take a few pictures of what it looks like inside if anyone wants though Reb's drawing is very accurate. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 photo's of inside would be great, then I can link this thread to the tech archive for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well Sunday morning so I started to look at the problem - Reb, how on earth did you manage to get your hands anywhere near the spring etc? After 5 mins of thinking a double jointed gibbon might be able to do it I gave up that idea and set about de-constructing. Haha I've never been compared to a gibbon before! It was a pretty awkward job to do, but i was determined not to take the dash apart! It took a lot of fiddling whilst upside down in the footwell with the spring held between the tips of two fingers - and it took lots of attempts! Anyway, glad its sorted now. Its weird how that little spring seems to do so much I also noticed that there is no way that you can't get air to the screen, the flaps only open/shut the vents under the lower panel - there is nothing to shut the feed to the screen vents. IIRC, the flaps that control the supply to the footwells also control the supply to the screen. If air to the footwell is fully open, the flaps sit at the top of the heater box and should occlude the tube that feeds the windscreen vents. If the footwell vents are fully closed, the flaps sit against them allowing full flow up the tubes to the windscreen vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 On early models it is as Dad's Toy describes. The vents only control air flow to the footwells, the screen vent flow is just whatever is left. So if the footwells are shut...all of it I think that post-2002 models, with the new dash, actually had a second pair of flaps on the tubes to the screen vents, enabling you to direct all the air to the footwells if desired. I don't know for sure as I've not had mine apart yet, but I'm sure I read it somewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'll get some pictures as I put it back together - assuming stupid BT home hub doesn't blow up again (on number 5 at the moment) Anyone know the Indian for "it's shagged again"? Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 On my 2003 dash, you can indeed direct all the air into the footwells with none to the screen and vice versa. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'll get some pictures as I put it back together - assuming stupid BT home hub doesn't blow up again (on number 5 at the moment) Anyone know the Indian for "it's shagged again"? Malcolm it appears to be इसे फिर से shagged hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Toy Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 Well here we are with a couple of pictures of the air distribution set up. This is how much you have to take out just to get to it. There are 19 screws that hold the top on but the one's adjacent to the bulkhead are awkward to get to and I could only just get them out using a small stubby screwdriver. This is what the cover itself looks like. It has a rubber/foam seal all along the bottom. The actuating cable outer is clipped into the cover from underneath and if you have a problem with the drivers side flap (like I did) then you will have to take the instrument panel and cowl off as the end of the cover sits underneath them and you just can't get to it otherwise. If it's the passenger side you may be lucky and be able to undo that half of the cover and lift it up enough to get to the flap. Here's the passenger side flap with a new flat spring in place And here's the drivers side (the splatter is lubricant I sprayed onto the shaft where it sits/pivots on the lower panel) The cable to open/close the flaps can be seen attached to the flap and it's only held in with a small cable clamp. Pulling on it just pulls the flap open and twists the shaft to open the other flap. Microcat shows a clip in the middle of the shaft, which would make sense, but mine didn't have one and also there's no hole for it to go into. I thought of drilling a hole to accommodate it but it's not even available from Land Rover. You can only buy the springs in a pack of 5 from Land Rover which may explain why when I eventually got in, I found someone had doubled them up and put 2 springs in each flap although the drivers side had come out. One is what is on Microcat and seems to close the flaps with enough pressure so I'm expecting the lever won't be as stiff to operate now. I'm just waiting for some new rubber grommets for the tube to the screen vents (again available in pack of 5) before it all goes back together. It seemed silly not to replace both springs and grommets whilst I'm in here as I don't fancy doing it again. Hope this may be useful to someone else. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'll link this to our tech archive for future reference thanks very much for the additional info/pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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