reb78 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just got the 110 (defender 200tdi, recon LT77 box, low mileage TD5 transfer box & GKN overdrive) back on the road after changing the transfer box. If i accelerate hard through 1st and 2nd (especially up a hill), i get a judder as i engage 2nd gear. Any thoughts on what this might be? It didnt do it before changing the box and doesnt do it if i accelerate more sedately. The clutch has only done 30k although it is a britpart item (fitted before i knew the perils of britpart parts!). Starting to wish i'd changed it whilst i was messing around down there anyway! I also fitted an x-brake at the same time as the new transfer box, but i dont beleive the judder is related to that. Can this be anything else transfer box related?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Just checking, when you say as you engage gear you get a judder... is that when you move gear lever or when you let the clutch pedal back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Sorry - as i let the clutch pedal up and apply the power, so essentially it happens with the pedal released, clutch engaged and the accelerator down. It sounds like its clutch related to me but I cant get it to slip and judder in other gears, even first when pulling away, which is what made me ask the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 As you say, I would expect it to be the clutch although it's strange you can only get it to happen as you go into second. I assume all this is happening in hi range on the transfer box, so nothing is changing in the transfer box other than torque and speed which you would expect to also cause the judder in other gears.... Is there a chance that this has been happening for a while and it's just the 'testing' of the new box or maybe the lack of sloppiness in the new box that is now revealing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorrick Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It does sound like Clutch to me, as you would have it in first gear to start with to pull away and as you say accelerating hard putting it into second once moving, does it judder if you pull away in second ? only an Idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I cant get it to do it today. It had done it a few times under similar circumstances, hence my post, but seems to have stopped for the moment. Very strange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This is going to sound silly... but would you say it is weather related? I'm assuming it's somewhat damp today where you are..... was it always dry when you could get it to judder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I guess it could be. The two days that it has done it have been dry and it is damp today. Trouble is its hard to comment too much as this is only its third day back on the road after changing the box! What are you thinking? Is it possible that the x-brake is not moving easily on its locating pins and is catching a tiny bit occasionally? That wouldnt be related to 2nd gear only though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm thinking the damp air may actually have some very slight effect on the friction material of the clutch, also engine will have a little more power as the air is denser. Both these combining may be enough to make the judder disappear (probably more likely the engine performance). But tbh I really am clutching at straws here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm thinking another week or so testing before contemplating any major investigative surgery would be sensible tbh at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm thinking another week or so testing before contemplating any major investigative surgery would be sensible tbh at this point I agree - i'm not going to rush in and pull the box again unless it really goes caput!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ...... Is it possible that the x-brake is not moving easily on its locating pins and is catching a tiny bit occasionally? That wouldnt be related to 2nd gear only though. Does the X-Brake disc look like it has been rubbing on the pads? Especially more 'wear' in one spot? Or maybe could the handbrake cable be caught on something and as the transfer box moves on the mountings could it slightly apply the brake causing the box to move, release brake, move apply brake .... etc Just a few more random thoughts, might be worth having a roll around underneath to look and maybe feel the temp of the disc after a run .... not having an X-brake I don't know how warm they would be after a run ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Not sure if its the same with an x-brake but a normal handbrake if adjusted a little tight can cause a judder. If it's the clutch it's donald ducked anyway so you might as well 'let it develop'; maybe it is the x-brake and it'll settle down. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thought i'd drag this back up. The judder is still present, but only really when cold. It dissapears as the truck warms up. I was thinking i'd change the clutch and be done with - but, its only really done 20k (not that this means it hasnt gone). Could my GKN overdrive be causing this? I was reading this thread: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=52619 and it got me thinking about the OD. How does the clutch work on the OD and is it something i might have contaminated with oil or something when i last had it off the vehicle (hence the slippage)?? I've taken my od apart before, but i cant remember which bit might have been the clutch in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 the OD's clutch is within the oil filled casing, so just by removing/refitting the OD shouldn't make any difference, It's electrically selected 7 hydraulically engaged/disengaged, is the OD's fluid level correct, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yep. Oil is correct (level and type) - checked it a couple of days ago. I wonder if i should run it without the OD and see if the judder dissapears. Could it be a problem with the OD, or is it more likely the clutch (the one on the flywheel)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Found this on one of the Triumph pages since they use the same type of OD: John Korsak wrote: I purchased my '74 TR6 June 2001. PO had not done anything to the car for years. Soon after my purchase I noticed that the clutch seemed to be slipping in 1st and 2nd, but not very much in 3rd or 4th. Of course that seemed to be just the opposite of what a slipping clutch should be doing. After researching the problem in the 6-PACK archives, I concluded that my overdrive (J Type) was stuck in the ON position. I checked the electricals and they seem to be working properly. With the help of my friendly mechanic (and transmission specialist) we removed the solenoid and discovered that corrosion had caused the piston to be stuck in the ON position. Cleaning the piston and honing out the bore of the solenoid solved the problem. So I know from first hand experience that a J type solenoid can get stuck in the on position. This is the page the quote above came from: http://www.buckeyetr...d/JOD4/JOD4.htm More info here in case its of use to anyone else: http://www.buckeyetr...d/JOD1/JOD1.htm Is the solenoid easy to remove and can i remove it without draining the oil? Got to be worth a check before pulling the whole thing off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Well it has to be easier to remove the OD to rule it out than replacing the main clutch! So if I was you I'd take that route to start with seeing as people seem to be at a loss to explain your judder. EDIT: Posts crossed in the ether, I'm not that much of a plank.... most of the time Edited October 2, 2011 by CwazyWabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 just run without using the OD, solly is fairly easy to remove, can't remeber if the fluid beeds to be drained but it would prevent you getting covered in ATF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Now, i dont want to speak too soon, but i changed the oil in the OD, removed the solenoid and checked it operated off of a battery in the garage and the judder is pretty much gone (for now). I couldnt get anything but the faintedt judder this morning, so it definately seems to have lessened. Perhaps there was some muck stuck in the fluid ports around the solenoid and the OD clutch was catching?? I dont really know. I suspect this will recurr and be nothing to do with the OD! One other thing i noticed was oil on the bottom of the engine and bellhousing. My first thought was rear crank seal (oil on the clutch plate would explain the judder i suppose), but if i look through the drain hole, the flywheel is completely dry. If the rear seal was leaking, would it not trickle oil down the face of the flywheel and show up at the bottom of the flywheel? The drain hole threads are wet with oil, but this could be blowback from a leak from the dipstick (see my other thread about re-securing the dipstick). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 The oil can run down the face of the flywheel housing, Rich, rather than the flywheel. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Thanks Mo. I've cleaned up all of the other dribbles and fixed the dipstick leak, so i'll see if more oil gathers towards the bellhousing now. If it does i suppose its gearbox off time (again!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 The oil can run down the face of the flywheel housing, Rich, rather than the flywheel. Mo Good news of sorts....the oil on the bellhousing was a mix. Clearing up the engine oil leaks from the dipstick meant i removed engine oil that was being blown back from the mix. That left a runny clear straw fluid on the bellhousing - clutch fluid. So have changed the slave cylinder now! At least the box/engine doesnt have to come off for a rear crank seal change now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yup, I'd rather do a slave cylinder than a rear seal Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yup, I'd rather do a slave cylinder than a rear seal Mo All fixed, the rod even stayed in place in its clip on the release arm. I got that satisfying feeling because i didnt actually break it whilst trying to repair it this weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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