Imminent Classic ownership!

[cswagon]

After forty odd years of playing with cars, and the last twenty or so of them messing with Land Rovers,

and still using my 1950 80" as my sole means of transport to work, and hopefully back, everyday, I am

about to take possession of my first Range Rover.

This will be coming in the guise of a 1993 Vogue 3.9 with a Zavoli gas system, MOT until next year sometime,

and from the looks and description seems a reasonable buy ( on the surface).

Anyway,considering that 95% of the Land Rovers I have rebuilt/restored have been Series vehicles, and the

remaining percentage haven't been Range Rovers, I am understandably nervous. AKA. Petrified.

Mechanically I think I'm in with a shouting chance, and with that many Series vehicles under my belt I have

had to learn to use a mig, so I'm reasonably happy from those respects. But what I am not too thrilled about

is the sheer enormity of the use of these "relay" things and "ECU's" whatever they are.

Having said that,my desire to own a Classic has finally made me take leave of my senses and at the very mature

age that I have achieved I feel it is now or never.Therefore, in readiness for the fast approaching doom,I ask

for your obviously vast wealth of experience to guide me in what may be my darkest, literally, and probably

motionless, days to come.

Firstly, would I be correct in thinking that I need some kind of code reader to help me in deciphering any problems

that will almost certainly arise as soon as I take possession, and if so where would I obtain one please?

Secondly, if I have a code number where would I be able to look up what it relates to so that I can then come onto

this forum and ask you all how to fix it please?

Thirdly, please be gentle with me when you answer as I am an old man with a "Series" bad back who just wants a bit

of comfort as he heads towards his white haired days.

Thank you

Graham.

[landy V8]

pretty sure classics don't have a diagnostic port.not much of a mechanical difference with a rangie over say a defender.there are plenty of people on here with vast knowledge of the V8 so should be pretty helpfull if/when the need arrises.

Nige aka,Hybrid From Hell know quite a bit on V8's

[duncmc]

All you will need for the electrical stuff is a multimeter and the LR workshop manual. There is not a diagnostics port, it is all done the old fashioned way of testing circuits, voltages, currents and resistances at whatever point the manual indicates I believe from reading the manual.

Mine is a 1993 vogue 3.9 auto with LPG, so welcome to the club!

[Bowie69]

Welcome to the club Graham

What you will probably find... is you have very little time spent on the EFI and electrics side of things... generally, I can't believe I am saying this, they are pretty reliable, compared to say reliabile the floors, sills, wheel arches, body mounts and other steel bits are at staying attached to the rest of the truck If the engine is running OK don't tinker with it bar the normal mechanical servicing, plugs, oil, filters and cap/rotor. LPG systems can be tuned/tweaked by most LPG fitters, and Zavoli is a pretty good make to have if any

There is 'Hotwire' diagnostics in the tech archive, which allows you test anything and everything to do with the EFI system, worth a read if you have 10 minutes

And good luck, they are a lovely drive

[bishbosh]

Got any metric spanners....? :P

[Ally V8]

Your new car WILL have a diagnostic port,but you need Testbook or similar to read it.But as already said its all doable with a multimeter and a good understanding of the layout.Its all prety reliable stuff,but keeping the HT side of the ignition system up together is vital with an LPG system.Genuine leads,cap and rotor help - NGKBPR6ES plugs work well too and are fairly cheap.

LR still did paper manuals including electrical troubleshooting manuals for at least the 1993 model year too.

Rust will be the worst problem,the only reason I sold the lovely 1993 Vogue SE I had.Still the nicest all round car I have ever driven.

[cswagon]

Well, thank you everyone who replied for putting my mind at rest,I am still apprehensive but

not quite as panicky now.

It does seem that every post I read though usually concerns something electrical but as you

so rightly say, worry about it when the time comes.

Well it duly arrived this morning and I had about half an hour to look over it at lunchtime

so went straight for the rust areas that have been mentioned. To be honest I was very happy

at what I found and obviously quite relieved.

There had been several repairs done to places like the cills and rear cross member but it looked

like a pretty professional job (better than I could have done that's for sure)and there is a

lot of evidence still of waxoilly type coverings to most metal underneath and what looks like

Hammerite paint to the floor areas inside the door thresholds.

Anyway, try as I might with the trusty screwdriver I was thwarted from finding anything to repair.

Give it time!

So, this weekend will see me draining everything that will drain and refilling it with new fluids,

and then the usual new ignition parts, and a once over of the stopping bits and steering bits and

then take to the road.

Just a quick question now I have reminded myself...the only V8 engines I have had dealings with in

the past are the ones that I have transplanted into various Series vehicles and they were mostly

SDI and all were 3.5. Now I always used 20w50 in those ones, the same as I put in the 2.25 engines.

Do I use the same in the 3.9 or a 15/40 or something please?

As time goes by I will almost certainly be on here looking for answers in the past posts or asking

for your time, patience and knowledge to assist me so please accept my apologies for using your precious

time to this end.

Many thanks once again

Graham.

[bishbosh]

If she's auto (I suspect she is) DON'T CHANGE THE GEARBOX OIL.

Can lead to serious problems as the new oil washes all the deposited crud off the gearbox casing and deposits it in the valve blocks ruining your gearbox.

[cswagon]

Hello

Once again thank you for all the advice.

Mr bishbosh When you say don't change the gearbox oil, do you actually mean, never change it?

Or don't change it unless you change/clean the filter?

I can see your reasoning for not wanting to, and I bow down to your obviously greater knowledge of all

things Range Rover, but I've always been a great believer in fresh oil and frequent changes and this

rather goes against my beliefs. But if you mean don't change it then I won't.

With my background of Land Rovers you can imagine I didn't have a lot to do with automatics and I

was forever changing the oils on most things underneath.

Anyway,back to maintainence, and a couple of questions please.

Do you set the gaps on the plugs the same as the manual says or is it different when running LPG?

Would 20w50 oil be okay for the 3.9 or should I be looking at something a little thinner?

And lastly for now, I have a set of 235 70 16 AT tyres on it and was wondering what the pressure should be.

Thanks again for your warm welcome, it makes an old man very happy.

Graham.

[bishbosh]

With an auto box, unless you are certain of the oil change history (i.e. frequent!) then if the box is performing normally and the oil doesn't look burnt then you are better off letting sleeping dogs lie.

I was all enthusiastic with my last autobox and thought I'd treat it to a new filter and an oil change. The result was the box sticking in first gear until the box warmed up. This went on for about 2 months. I was lucky that eventually whatever blockage had occurred cleared itself. If you look on Ashcroft's website you will see that I was particularly fortunate.

Note that I am not saying it is OK to change the oil if you change the filter too - I am saying do not change the oil if the box is functioning properly and the oil doesn't look burnt.

If you still have an irresistible urge to change gear box oils then get stuck into the transfer gearbox - can't do much harm there!!

Hope this helps.

[duncmc]

Hi Graham,

I have put 10/40 oil in mine. I looked at the handbook and manual and just choose an oil that would work in our temperature range here in the UK. I am sure that other people will put different oil in.

I set my plug gaps to the gap in the manual. It has been suggested to run them a bit closer for LPG, but i haven't yet.

Sorry not sure about tyre presuures. I would think that it will depend upon the load rating of the tyre, and what load you run the car at. I have 205's on my RRC.

[cswagon]

I completely take on board what you're saying bishbosh and I will drive it and see how

it performs before making any rash decisions.But I will change the transfer oil just to

get my fix.

Duncmc

The engine seems to run very nicely so when I change the plugs I'll check the gaps of

the ones that are in there and set the new ones accordingly.

The tyre pressures I will also set as the manual and see how the car behaves.

Thank you both for your advice, and if I can grab a grandchild I may even be able to

post a few photos.

Graham.

[Range Rover Blues]

Persoanally if you don't know how often the gearbox has been serviced I'd say if you have to change it then do it a couple of times in quick succession, ATF is a detergeant oil so will lift old deposits and carry them to the governor, a sort of centrifuge.

That age of V8 would have recomended 10/40 in the handbook but you can run 20/50, I buy mine form a Lucas ils agent, £25-30 for 9 litres and it has an oil stabiliser to protect on cold starts and high temperatures.

The EFi can be diagnosed with a multimeter, get the haynes manual, it;s not that bad other than everything you need is in the supliment. If you have an issue the engine EFi will reset if you disconnect the battery, the fault light will only come on with emissions faults though.

ABS if fitted can be interogated using the blink test, special equipment required, a paper clip.

The only twidling you can do on the gearbox is to adjust the kickdown, don't run with it disconnected though.

No airbags so unless you have air suspension then TBH you should be ok.

I'd agree with fitting NGK plugs but ask for BP6ES, without the resistor or if you feel flash BPR6EIS, iridium plugs. Close the plug gap up to 26/27thou.

If the gas conversion has an ECU you should be able to get a lead and software off the bay for about £40.

[cswagon]

Thank you Range Rover Blues for your comments and input.

On the matter of plugs I have this morning found a new pack of NGK BPRES plugs in my garage

that I obviously had over from one of my previous V8s, albeit a 3.5, so would you advise against

the use of these with the resistor in? I only ask, as everything I do nowadays is on a budget and

so if they will do no harm I would have used them.

Any comments gratefully received.

Thank you

Graham.

[mickeyw]

Hi Graham

Welcome!

On the plug side of things, BPR6ES are what I use, and what is recommended by many on here. Most V8s seem happy with these. They don't fall into the fancy=pricey category either

[Ally V8]

Thank you Range Rover Blues for your comments and input.

On the matter of plugs I have this morning found a new pack of NGK BPRES plugs in my garage

that I obviously had over from one of my previous V8s, albeit a 3.5, so would you advise against

the use of these with the resistor in? I only ask, as everything I do nowadays is on a budget and

so if they will do no harm I would have used them.

Any comments gratefully received.

They will be absolutely fine,I have been using BPR6ES plugs in all except the very early Rover v8's for years,buying 60-100 at a time - they are all it needs.The plug leads are VERY important though,I have only been using genuine from LR for a long time too,some use magnecor,but I often see them with the fittings falling off etc - They dont seem as good as they are made out to be.

Thank you

Graham.

[Bowie69]

I would run a good quality 20w50 mineral oil, the V8s thrive on them, I run VR1 Racing, but I suspect that may be out of your budget at £26 for 4.5l, what I use in the lightweight is Duckhams Q-grade 20w50, and it loves it. When I've not been able to get VR1 Racing, I have used Q-grade in my V8 and it ran very well on it.

If you want oil leaks and consumption then use a 10w40....

[duncmc]

If you want oil leaks and consumption then use a 10w40....

That could explain my increased oil leak then! LOL Still I will be fixing it anyway.

[cswagon]

Gentlemen, you are all such stars.

I am overwhelmed at such generousity with your knowledge of Range Rovers it is quite remarkable.

Thank you so much for all your help and advice, and I will try my best not to burden you with too many

questions in the future, but I'm afraid that my leap from Series ownership to the seemingly heady heights

of Range Rovers does appear quite large at the moment, and therefore my presence may be quite a

regular habit.

I'm looking forward to the weekend and my real chance to aquaint myself with my new purchase.

Many thanks once again

Graham.

[bishbosh]

I will try my best not to burden you with too many

questions in the future,

Eh??? That's not in the contract!! What are we supposed to do if we can't pretend to be intelligent by posting on the forum!!

Keep the questions coming!!

[Range Rover Blues]

BPR6ES are fine, but with a decnet set of surpessed leads a resisted plug is uneccessary. If the ignition system was sending out a bolt of lightening like a modern system that would be ok but the Lucas sustem sadly doesn't. As LPG is much harder to ignite (it's octane rating is around 115) a resisted plug can make a differnece to LPG. that said I run the iridium plugs and they are ok, hardly worth £8 a plug (but I didn't pay that) but supposedly so good you don't have to close up the plug gap.

If you only change to oil once a year use a quality branded oil, on an older engine perhaps a 20/50 would be better but in cold weather it take far longer to get the oil around the engine. later V8s ran closer tolerances to cope with thinner oils, these supposedly deliver better economy but more worryingly is that modern oils only delivery higher viscosity through the use of additives which break down with use, so after a while you aren't using the oil you think you paid for!

The best oil would be a high ratio semi synthetic or full sysnthetic. be careful with the semis as some are only 5% synth.

[cswagon]

Thank you once again for all the advice.

I'll go with the resistor plugs as I have them "in stock" and see how it performs and

I'll try them at 26/27 thou. I've ordered new genuine plug leads, cap and rotor arm

and will put them on one at a time and try each of them a day and see if the

performance changes. As I said, she seems to be running fine as it is but I can't

resist renewing some things.At least I know I have good spares of everything.

I'll use 20/50 as I buy it in 25 ltr. drums, and also put it in my 80", and because

I probably change it far too often anyway so it sounds like it should be okay.

I renewed the oil in the engine , diffs and transfer box this morning and started

soaking the bleed nipples on the calipers this afternoon in readiness for a

brake fluid transfusion next weekend.

I'll get the mechanical bits right first and then start on the wire brush and waxoil.

Thanks again

Graham.

[Fett]

you can get a fault code reader for the 14 cux ecu on ebay for £50

[vougese39]

is it the flasher or a actual display fett?

as for the oil 20/50 i have found to be slightly too thick i use a **** oil 15/40 mineral as it is not so thick and can effect the mpg slightly too