eds Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I did make sure the hub seal was below the lip of the hub, hopefully it did not move when fiddling about. No matter how tight I do the hub nut the wheel can still turn. If I take the nut off the wheel does not spin more easily. There is no play in any direction I tried to pull the hub off again or get some movement at least but it won't budge a bit. I am thinking to just do the hub nut up quite tight and leave it at that. Maybe re check after 100 miles. If the hub nut was done tight would the wheel actually stop turning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm not following - the torque gives you the compression between the inner & outer races, and unless I'm missing something shouldn't be affected by the fit so long as it still slides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 That is the problem, nothing slides so hub nut tightness has no effect. Really tight hub still turns with 2 fingers and resistance. No hub nut no difference to hub resistance. Can't do any torquing as I only have a box hub nut spanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm not following - the torque gives you the compression between the inner & outer races, and unless I'm missing something shouldn't be affected by the fit so long as it still slides? The last bit is the point, if the bearing is hard to slide on the stub axle it is going to throw the torque figures out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The last bit is the point, if the bearing is hard to slide on the stub axle it is going to throw the torque figures out the window. Ah... There I'd assumed that if the race was *on* the axle successfully it was hopefully a sliding fit. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Can only guess from what ed has said that it doesn't slide very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think i will do it up to a bit tight and hope for the best. Nothing else I can do really. That way if it is too tight it will slacken off a bit into the hub nut. If it is too loose it will have to do until 100 miles later when I can check it again. Thanks for the supports guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The last bit is the point, if the bearing is hard to slide on the stub axle it is going to throw the torque figures out the window. True, I suppose, but you basically need to be able to get the inner bearing race home fully, tightening the hub nut is not really the tool for the job in this case, IMHO. Emery a bit more until you can gently tap one on and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't think the hub will ever come off again.............! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Ok I'm back after a weekend of other things. It was a good idea because things were going downhill. I left the hub nut alone and thought to put the caliper back on. I don't know how it happened but I managed to strip the thread on the bottom flexipipe union. Really I did not even tighten it. Anyway I then had to buy a new set of flexipipes and a new pipe from the caliper. All went easy on the caliper end right up to the top flexi union. I undid it nicely, it was quite tight. I then fed the new flexi into the mount bracket and fastened. But then the female union just will not take the male thread. Brake fluid dripping everywhere, the thing just spins. The female accepts the old flexi, the new flexi male accepts the securing nut nicely. It is still not solved so I am about to go and attempt it again. I think Land Rovers are not straight forward. Having a rest over the weekend allowed me some time to ponder the bearing nut problem. It occurred to me that I had been quite stupid and had thought that you could do the hub nut up so tight you could make the wheel stop turning/spinning. I confused "bind up" for "stop spinning". Looking back it seems like a very stupid thing to confuse but as I said Land Rovers are tricky too. I read that TD5s have a hellish tight nut and I thought about the nature of a bearing and thought it would take serious force to stop that working. I hope I am right! I am going out now to see if I can get the hub to back off just a bit to allow some play in the bearing and then try to start the job again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I've just finished rebuilding my other swivel, need to get it on the vehicle again. I wasn't entirely happy with the state of the hose to caliper pipes, so I was making up new ones regardless - the one on this side broke as I was trying to undo it, so just as well really! I replaced the hoses at the same time out of paranoia - realistically, they were probably adequate. Need to work out what other brake lines need replacing yet. Can you thread the new pipe onto the union without it being bolted in place on the bracket? Even slackening the mounting nut off half-way so that you've some play in the hose, just to see if you can get the thread started. The nuts on mine were almost rusted in place, which didn't help, but the first pipe has reconnected OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Nope can't get it on away from the bracket either The old flexi male goes on really easliy. But not either end on 2 new flexis, crazy. Think I will have to put new pipe on..........grrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Having a rest over the weekend allowed me some time to ponder the bearing nut problem. It occurred to me that I had been quite stupid and had thought that you could do the hub nut up so tight you could make the wheel stop turning/spinning. I confused "bind up" for "stop spinning". Looking back it seems like a very stupid thing to confuse but as I said Land Rovers are tricky too. I read that TD5s have a hellish tight nut and I thought about the nature of a bearing and thought it would take serious force to stop that working. I hope I am right! Binding it is getting stiffer before not being able to turn. It is possible to stop the hub from being able to turn it by grabbing the brake disk. However the engine could probably overcome it, and would lead to some very hot bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 hub nuts (NOT TD5 style nuts - they are different), easiest way is to forget anything to do with dial gauges or torque settings; Slide the hub onto the stub axle, tighten the inner nut with a 52mm socket or box spanner-not stupid tight-just enough that when you now turn the hub by hand the rollers in the hub bearings push all the grease out of the way between themselves and the bearing races. Give it a few turns, then slacken it off so the hub is wobbly slack. If your hands or 52mm socket/box spanner arn't greasy (because your wearing surgical style gloves) slap some grease on the outside of the socket/box spanner or on your hands. Imagine grabbing a slippery pig contest!!! Grab the socket/box (tool) spanner by hand (no ratchets/extension/tommy bars/screwdrivers or leverage-just the outer diameter of the tool) and tighten by hand, grip the tool as hard as possible and tighten the inner hub nut till your hands slip on the tool. Stick the 'd' shape'd lock washer on, screw the outer hub nut on and torque this properly to the book figure. Bash the lock washer over 'inside and out' over both nuts. Never had any bearing trouble doing it this way. Never over tighten bearings till they bind. For fitting bearings-I always heat the outer or the part that needs to go outside of something and cool the other or inner half. I use a single ring electric hotplate with a steel container of glycerine and get it nice and hot before dunking the bearing race/component in or an electric paint stripper/heat gun thing, the other half goes in a freezer for as long as possible. Fish the hot bearing race out of the glycerine and get it on the cold component in one swift movement-no dilly dallying about. Saves bashing things with hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I can tell you I think I made a cock of it......... I lump hammered the hub on inner bearing. Then tap punched the outer bearing in Then cranked up the nut with a box spanner and half meter lever. The hub spun but with 2 finger resistance. Now undo nut and nothing happens. Hub won't back off. I hope I have not damaged the bearings. I'll have to hammer harder to get it to back off i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I suggest you just drive it for a short while in order for everything to bed in and ease up, then jack the relevant wheel off the ground and see if you can detect and play in the bearings. Using a lump hammer to fit the hub was a bad idea. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotrock Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Ed, it's being very interesting hearing about your swivel rebuild. I admire everyone that tackles such a thing. But not being very technical or having the tools, I have just had by swivels rebuilt at Durham 4x4. That's new balls,seals,bearings, pins etc. For this paid just short of £200 in labour. Not too bad considering the work.. Shotrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 What can I say! I think you may have a point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Well the one side is finished nearly............... Just one last stumble. I have fitted these heavy duty drive flanges http://www.mm-4x4.com/heavy-duty-drive-flange---set-of-2-2907-p.asp I can not understand where the cir clip goes as the half shaft does not come out of the splines by much more that 3mm. I put a bolt in the end of the shaft and tried to get some end float but there is none. Have I made an error? Again! For those following my earlier exploits, I managed to fit a new female to the in situ brake pipe so good solution there. And the hub nut I backed off with a lump hammer until I had some play and then took the play out and hand tightened (and a bit more) the nut. All seems good. So any ideas about the cir clip? Thanks as usual Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Solved this one and finished! I jacked the wheel up and that allowed the half shaft to float out the last bit. Glad it was simple! Glad I'm finished :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 There's usually a couple of shims between the circlip and the drive flange. Turning the steering from lock to lock usually gets the shaft out of the flange. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The shaft can be pushed in so the circlip groove isn't visible. Is most annoying when you don't notice its pushed in until you have the drive flange siliconed onto the axle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Or, for the rear, that you've just put the half shaft in the wrong way round... You use sealant between the drive flange and the splines then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 no, silicone instead of the drive flange gasket . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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