ZeroDelta Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi, I am in the midst of repairing a 1992 200Tdi and it seems every time I remove something 6 more problems appear. Recently I was investigating the rust problem in my near side door (rotten bottom and the the repair posts on this forum have been really useful) when I noticed some rust flakes in the footwell. A bit of investigation with a screw driver soon had a large quantity of bulkhead on the deck!!! On closer investigation of the off side revealed the same. That said the bulkhead looks sound from the outside with not bubbling of paint. After a depressing cup of tea and a scan of the forum I think I may get away with repair the corners only and not replacing the whole bulkhead - fingers crossed... My question is how does moisture get in to cause the rust? I want to prevent it happen in the future. The door seals are all new and sound, but I have notice moisture at the top of the A pillar, but cannot see how it gets in. As the money pit of a Landy is about to undergo major surgery what should I concentrate on to ensure a water tight seal? I intend to coat everything in Waxoil as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Water leaks in through various places (roof gutter, door seals, windscreen seal, screen hinge/bracket seals, screen-to-bulkhead seal, vent seals, pedal box seals) where seals have gotten old and perished. The water pools in the footwells, a-pillars etc. and is then ignored and left to rot the bulkhead because "all Land Rovers leak" and it's OK, apparently Of course the bulkhead can rust from the outside if the protection (paint) is breached, most likely point for this to occur is the exterior of the footwells. In my experience they tend to rust from the inside though, due to all the water trapped against the steel by mats/carpets etc. Combine the above with shoddy construction using wafer-thin steel and rudimentary corrosion protection, and you have a rusty bulkhead! End result is you have to break out the welder and get busy with some repair work! I'd fix the leaks too while you're at it, prevent it occurring further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howitzer Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You need lots and lots of seam sealer. When I fitted a new TD5 one I was amazed at how badly put together they are, warped steel creating gaps and it was only spot welded together. Also, only use closed cell foam for insulation on the inside, if it can keep hold of water then it's just going to keep the floor area damp. Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think the footwells mainly rot out because water, mud and stones get thrown up by the front wheels, splatters on the outside of the footwells removing the paint and starting the rusting process, and also builds up in the space between the outrigger and the footwell to make a nice gungy footwell removing paste. I made a rubber mudguard to cover this exposed section - attached to the inner wing and down past the outrigger, and now the road spray doesn't hit the footwell. Such a ridiculously simple thing I can't believe Land Rover never thought to cover this exposed bit?? Water gets inside as well through door seals, holes in the bulkhead, up through holes and gaps in the floor panels - If you take care to remove any carpet or mats regularly, dry it out and keep it painted, it shouldn't cause the massive flintstone pedal holes that normally appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The fact that the ingot is cropped too close to the top. Then when rolled there's a long very fine line of krap in the rolled steel. The steel rusts from the inside out. Get a piece of nice new steel. Cut it cleanly. Leave it outside and keep checking the edge. You will see the krap start to rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Or fit a galvanized bulkhead. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think your vehicle must have orginally been a Friday afternoon special as generally speaking - Land Rovers suffer very little from corrosion. Body alignment and attention to the intricacies of assembly - generally mean these vehicles are pretty-much water tight and they have been known to float Similarly, the fine tolerances and precision engineering also assured leak-free engine and transmission, along with what was then regarded as state of the art automotive electrical systems. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 3 1/2 months too early, Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hi there If you think a 90/110 is bad never buy a Disco and think it is only a small amount of welding it needs. It is ok to do a repair (weld in new metal) but how do you coat the back of the repair with paint/oil or what ever. I think that is a big part of the problem. Then the crappy material used in the first place. If you try for a water tight Land Rover you are either brave or silly. Leave drain holes at the lowest points, if you can, oil or wax up every nook and cranny and hope for the best. Depending on how far down the food chain you are has a big part to play also. If you can afford a new car every 3/4 years fair play to you, you will not see rust. We all need to demand a better product and not just from LR. People have the power. Vote for politicians and you only encourage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wack61 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 . If you can afford a new car every 3/4 years fair play to you, you will not see rust. We all need to demand a better product and not just : All new car manufacturers now e-coat panels and chassis components, it's an electrostatic paint process which when applied is almost impossible to scratch off and rustproof which explains why you don't see modern cars rusting In 1979 my first car was a Mk III Cortina, it was 7 years old, I stopped at a roundabout, somebody behind me didn't and everything under the bumper was a pile of dust on the floor, these days 7 year old cars still look new I'd be very surprised if new defenders weren't e-coated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brighouse shed Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The fact that the ingot is cropped too close to the top. Then when rolled there's a long very fine line of krap in the rolled steel. The steel rusts from the inside out. Get a piece of nice new steel. Cut it cleanly. Leave it outside and keep checking the edge. You will see the krap start to rust. slightly pedant like : car bodies are made from coil plate steel which in turn is made from continuous cast slabs and slooms (not billet) and has been fro the last thirty years. there is no slag or other detritus in concast products. if you had rolled a short cropped ingot the 'Krap' is generally SiO2 KaSiO4 mixture which are effectively glasses and don't corrode. if you leave a piece of sheet in the rain waht you are seeing is the natural attraction of fine water miniscus onto the very narrow edge allowing beading hence rusting, the surface will dry off via air and natural capillary action. enuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Some great information guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xraydave Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I had to have the body caps replaced on my 07 Puma as they were totally shot, it was only 4 years old and had only done 40,000 miles. My last Land Rover was a series 2a which was over thirty years old when I got it and had no rust on the caps as they were properly galvanised. I think these new ones are galvanised then painted so not sure of the quality of the galvanising. Luckily it was covered by the warranty. I was thinking of having the chassis professionally waxoyled, anyone had it done? Is it worth the money? I do intend keeping the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroDelta Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Guys thanks for all the info and very useful. Is suppose it is now time to get the grinder out and start chopping out the rot... Eightpot, is there any chance of a photo of your rubber wheel arch protector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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