smokeyone Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hello Could someone give me a spot of advice please on upgrading my front brakes from 10 inch to 11 inch drums. Seems to be a shortage of 11 inch front backplates - assuming I have the ref number correct - 246566 & 246565. I can just about find the LH 246565 but no luck with the RH. I was thinking would ones from a Landrover 101 fit okay. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fall Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I may be wrong, but I think the 6cyl and V8 models all had 11" front drums. If thats the case....you want this: http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/products/600203_back_plate_front_rh_2_6_litre_and_v8_.php Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks very much for the help - would seem the way to go - unless of course it's overkill with the wider shoes as well.....assume the 11" V8 backplates will not go with the non V8 shoes/springs drum etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You want 109 or post 1980 swb but not 6cyl/V8 on an 88" as it would snatch terribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 That's the query - I can find LH ones just about but RH ones seem scarce or cost £150 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No local breakers to you? Mine both came from the local Land Rover breakers, who have loads of old Series stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 No luck with breakers but I may have tracked down some - would anyone know if I also need to purchase something called a an oil catcher back plate that goes on the rear of the backplate - it's not used on the standard 10 inch drums but is listed for the 11 inch .. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I don't recall fitting anything like that to mine. Think it was fitted to military vehicles, and optional on others. Parts book says 1980 on. Fit it if you like, but it's not strictly necessary. Just stops the oil ruining brake shoes if you get a leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think people are hanging on to the ones they've got, I cleared out AMD a few weeks ago, hens teeth springs to mind, and I'm not letting go of mine!! Why not go for a disk conversion instead? Less asjustment issues for sure, and a doddle to change pads as opposed to shoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky230 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 just remember if you upgrade the front brakes to 11 inch, you need the change the rear cylinders to the larger cylinders normally used on the front brakes. the oll catcher is a optional extra you dont need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks for the help - one less bit needed - so just order up the backplate/drum/wheel cylinders/shoes/and any springs, nuts, clips etc ................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Why not go for a disk conversion instead? Less asjustment issues for sure, and a doddle to change pads as opposed to shoes i think a disk conversion is either very expensive off the shelf (compared to 11" drums), or a lot more involved for a homebrew set up. having fitted 11" drums to my s3, i know it was doddle! no real fab needed, just bolt on parts. my insurance company also didnt care about the conversion, as i used standard series parts. i'm sure a disk conversion wouldnt be so simple. adjustment on them is a nightmare though with help from a mate and his Dad, we rebuilt my front axle and did the conversion in one weekend, it probably would have been quicker if my swivels werent knackered to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I need to do the swivels as well - I just didn't want to get started and then find out I needed such and such parts as well which were either unavailable or a silly price ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Might be worth swapping the bleed nipple to the top brake cylinder on each side. As per here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=5544 I did this to mine, and after reading about the nightmare of bleeding twin-leading-shoe front brakes, mine bled first time really easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Very useful info - assume you did a dual pipe set up in which case what did you use for the block where all the pipes come together by the chassis near the master cylinder - the official LR gizmo with the low brake fluid connect - wish I could think of the name - or just a simple version - also for ordering on the web - do I order 3/16" pipe - just checking I have the correct size and thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 PDWA valve....I threw it away...jammed up solid anyway... 3/16" pipe yes, mine are all copper, part from one pipe I bought to fit the special big fitting on the MC which is steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thanks very much again for the advice - seem to be doing an almost total rebuild of my series 3 and thought I might as well upgrade the brakes while I am at it. What did you use instead of the PDWA valve ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mine was a '72 88" so had standard 10" single line non-servo brakes to start with. Now it has twin-line servo assisted brakes with 11" TLS front and 10" rear. Same a standard fit after 1980. So yes, it's a dual-pipe setup. Front line goes to a T-piece on chassis rail under batter mount, and then to each front wheel. Rear line just goes straight to rear axle T-piece as normal. I didn't bother putting the PDWA valve in, the new master cylinder I bought being dual-line has that safety feature built in to an extent. No brake warning light to illuminate on my dashboard anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Good advice re not going to 1 ton front brakes ie the wider 11"TLS set up , I did that to a rebuild on an 88 V8 back in 70's , you had to be very careful in the wet as it would lock up real easy !! Mind you in the dry it nearly pulled your eyeballs out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I got vilified for raising that over-braking problem in another brake upgrade thread. Your experience shows my concerns were right. Anything more than standard 109 4-cyl brakes will cause problems on an 88 because you simply don't have the weight to press the tyres onto the tarmac and create suficient grip to avoid locking the wheels. My wife's 1980 Lightweight has 11" front brakes and 10" rear, servo assisted and dual line, but the front brakes are SLS, not TLS, using the same components as a 109 rear axle. It brakes perfectly well, and benefits from being very easy to bleed compared to the TLS system on my 109. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I have just removed the 1¼" rear cylinders and went back to 1" cylinders as with an empty soft top 88" on Special tracks the back end was prone to locking and coming round on me in the wet. I have 11" Regular width TLS at the front. I now have a balance I'm happy with that matches my vehicle and the tyres it's on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 What did you use instead of the PDWA valve ...... straight connectors.... I didn't bother putting the PDWA valve in, the new master cylinder I bought being dual-line has that safety feature built in to an extent. My master cylinder is not the one in the standard parts catalogue.....there's a thread in the Series section I did when I was having trouble, the part numbers in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyone Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Could someone explain SLS re TLS Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 SLS : Single leading shoe TLS : Twin leading shoe. With an SLS system, you have just one cylinder with two pistons which push out the brake shoes. The back brakes should be like this. Because of this, and both shoes pivoting at the same point, only one shoe presents its leading edge to the drum in the direction of travel, be it forward or reverse. The other shoe contacts part way along its length. With a TLS system, you have two single piston cylinders, usually one at top and one at bottom. When you apply the brakes, both wheel cylinders push out both brake shoes and present the leading edges of both to the drums, but only in the forward direction of travel, so its important when building up brake sets that you get the correct handed assemblies for each side. IIRC, presenting the leading edge of the shoe makes for better braking than part way along, which is why Land Rover changed from SLS to TLS on the fronts. The rears remained SLS because otherwise, you'd have very inefficient braking when going backwards. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 My master cylinder is not the one in the standard parts catalogue.....there's a thread in the Series section I did when I was having trouble, the part numbers in there. Found it http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=71875 Part number is NRC6096 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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