duncmc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I have made quite a few new copper brake pipes to connect up the ETC block that I didn't have before. They are driving me mad though, I haven't made new brake pipes before, but how hard can it be right? I got nice looking flares, watched some you tube videos first and had a practice. I started by not doing them up too tightly, but lots leaked even when I just filled the reservoir with fluid. After tightening lots, and most stopping leaking but I am still having problems. I have even remade the one from the ETC block to the top of the PCRV but it is still leaking loads when the pump starts running. The one I remade looked ok when I removed it, but I don't know what to do next. I have given up for now, shame the bleed process was actually going ok apart from the leaks.Got to step 9 I think. I am thinking to un plumb the ETC and just do the simple ABS block. I have been using a Clarke flare tool. Any tip please or hints/suggestions grately appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty1a Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Have you made the right type of flare? ie single or double? for each end? easy mistake to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Have you made the right type of flare? ie single or double? for each end? easy mistake to make I think so, at least they look the same as the ones that came off. The second hand ABS/ETC block had the ports blocked with the old pipes crushed and the nuts still in so I could copy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 you could try annealing the flares after you made them to soften the copper/cunifer so it molds to shape better. rub soap (hand soap) on the pipe and heat until the soap turns clear then allow to cool. i have found that some cheaper copper brake pipes come pre work hardened.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 you could try annealing the flares after you made them to soften the copper/cunifer so it molds to shape better. rub soap (hand soap) on the pipe and heat until the soap turns clear then allow to cool. i have found that some cheaper copper brake pipes come pre work hardened.... Thanks JeffR, I'll definately try that. I was wondering if it is the cheap Clarke tool also. When it clamps the pipe I am left with a gap even when tight, and then when forming the flare I have a little lip on the reverse which probably doesn't help. This is the one that was leaking a lot, and I remade it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty1a Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I put a drop of soap on the tool before putting it in the pipe to help it make the flare and it does help with the copper nicking like that in the pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 How much pipe are you leaving sticking out of the clamp before you make the flare? I've got the same cheapo tool but the ends have never leaked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAK Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hi, I had this problem when I replaced my brake pipes, after nuch messing about I discovered there are two types of fitting. With one of them the thread bottoms before the flare is clamped. Unfortunately I can't remember which is the corect one. Whatever you're using you probably want the other! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Agree there are two types of fitting. I think the end to the left needs to clamp first and tighten by hand. The b/pipe should sit no higher than the dia before the bit that goes into the b/pipe. There are 3 types of flares, I just copy what I am replacing. (cause I don't know which to use for each fitting) . Did you not get any instructions with the kit? I have the same kit and found having a practise on old b/pipe helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hi, I had this problem when I replaced my brake pipes, after nuch messing about I discovered there are two types of fitting. With one of them the thread bottoms before the flare is clamped. Unfortunately I can't remember which is the corect one. Whatever you're using you probably want the other! Mike When I read this I thought, "bet that's it!" Just checked, but I am using the same as the ones being replaced The kit did not come with any instructions, so I found some on youtube for a similar kit. I am leaving about the same amount sticking out as the corresponding flare die when its turned over if that makes sense. I had a practice on offcuts first. I made 12 new connections with flares. All but 2 leaked at first. After tightening all have stopped leaking except 5 which are all to do with the ETC block and PCRV. So I might have another go, or I might remove the ETC block, but the allen bolts are seized so I'd have to drill them out which I don't want to do. I think I might have another go making all new pipes, with soap, and might even try annealing them after forming the flares. Failing that I could always get some made by a local factors/garage, but what's to say they won't leak also. Want it back on the road now. I've had enough for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I know the feeling. I should have mentioned if you make the pipe slightly longer you have a bit to come and go on. BTW I have the original instructions and can email a copy of them to you if you want. Do Not Give Up ! Not sure about the ETC block but if there is no rubber seals or you dont mind replacing them a bit of heat might help. Check this out before doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 IIRC there are two types of union on the ABS block itself, and you can muddle them up and therefore get incorrect seating, is that a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I tried making some with one of those cheap tools and gave it up as a bad job. It was quicker and easier to nip down to a local garage where they made up a new set for a few pounds. I like to do everything myself, but when that little bit of copper is all that's stopping the 2 tons+ that I'm strapped to..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 And to counter that, I have made numerous flares with my cheap tool, and never had a problem, everyone sealed up straight away, and never started leaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I know the feeling. I should have mentioned if you make the pipe slightly longer you have a bit to come and go on. BTW I have the original instructions and can email a copy of them to you if you want. Do Not Give Up ! Thanks for all the replies. I have had a day off from it today. Bushwacker if I could have a copy of those instructions please, it might help. Bowie69, I will check the connections on the again just to make sure I have done the correct flares in the right places, and used the correct nuts etc. Worth checking. Then I'll make some new flares up, maybe even anneal them and have another go as it is. After that I am going to get some made up to the lengths that I have tried I think. Provided that they don't leak I'll trust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I am unable to upload to the forum. Type in laser tools in google search you should be able to get instructions there part no 2943 flaring tool. I have just seen them. If that does not work send me a pm with your email and I will send them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Type in laser tools in google search you should be able to get instructions there part no 2943 flaring tool. I have just seen them. Thanks. I have just read those instructions, and the are three little things I am not doing. I haven't used any oil, I haven't chamfered the outer edge of the tube and probably the biggest thing is that I am not leaving enough tube sticking out. I am only leaving until the first step not the second. So there will not be enought material to seal. I will redo them with this in mind and hopefully it'll work then. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb13 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks JeffR, I'll definately try that. I was wondering if it is the cheap Clarke tool also. When it clamps the pipe I am left with a gap even when tight, and then when forming the flare I have a little lip on the reverse which probably doesn't help. This is the one that was leaking a lot, and I remade it. The pipe you are using is 3/16 and you have the pipe in the 5/8 hole that is why it is not clamping tight and leaving a gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 The pipe you are using is 3/16 and you have the pipe in the 5/8 hole that is why it is not clamping tight and leaving a gap. I thought that too at first, but is just the way they are marked. It is clamped in the 3/16 hole. 5/8 is the big hole at the end, its approx 15mm, the 3/16 pipe is 4.76mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb13 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I have one of these at work: http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?gotonode=ViewProduct&method=mViewProduct&productid=14994&productdescription=&productcode=&category=6&catgroup=122&catmicrogroup=1087&analysiscode=&requiredresults=16 I didnt pay anywhere near that price from my local tool bloke but its the best bit of kit I've bought in along time. I used to use one of the clamp type that you have for on car work but it was a pain. These new ones are realy simple and you cant make a mistake with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have had another go just now using oil and more pipe sticking out to produce neat flares, but the tool just keeps producing off centre flares even though everything is kept square, so I have ordered a different Sealey one model AK5063 hopefully it will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have one of these at work: http://www.sealey.co...uiredresults=16 I didnt pay anywhere near that price from my local tool bloke but its the best bit of kit I've bought in along time. I used to use one of the clamp type that you have for on car work but it was a pain. These new ones are realy simple and you cant make a mistake with them. Very similar to the MoProd flare tool depicted here. I have never had any trouble with this tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 When tightening down with the pointy bit you need to go slow and checking all the time that the tube is centered. The Sealey tool looks like it will do the same job, not sure if it will be better? Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 The new flare tool arrived this morning, so at lunch and just now I had a quick go at a load of flares again on offcuts. I am still having problems though, even with the much better new tool the flares are still going off centre. I think I may be tightening the clamp too far down and compressing it too much. Please would someone be kind enough to post a picture of what a double flare should look like before it is compressed into a fitting so I can compare what I have? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Double flare instruction with good pics here: http://classicbroncos.com/brake_line_flaring.shtml Are you sure they need to be double flares? I thought they had the 'bulb' type on the ABS block...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.