Help and Advice for me Stranded in Africa

[tweetyduck]

I've trashed a couple of shocks. Actually i think they failed but on the compression stroke and i'll know more today what i remove the other. One of them is very weak on compression and the top ring has gone oval. If the other side is also weak on compression this may explain why this side is oval on top. Its been pulled when the other side compresses. If you can think of any other possible cause let me know. TA.

I’ve got a 510mm gap top to bottom mounts and a 70mm bump stop space. The standard shocks are only 550mm so this will only give me a 40mm articulation upwards (axle droop) and downwards (axle up) would be 70mm until the bump. So they will top out all the time.

The top ring on the broken shocks is oval from being pulled too long so the problem is quite weird.

A shock with a closed length of <440mm (less due to bump stop squash, they are 350mm closed on standard shocks ) would be good and an open of 600mm would be great. This is basically a +50 shock or an expedition shock as that’s 400 / 610 on the ones i have. The maths says the Terrafirma Big Bore is OK. (although its trashed)

My other option is to lower the top mounts using Gwyn Lewis drop mounts or make some here. I can then use standard shocks and still keep articulation. I think !! I've emailed Gwyn but had no reply as i was hoping they could send me the specs so i could get some made here. I even offered to pay full price just for the drawings !

The shock pulling may mean they were both weak on the down stroke as the broken one is certainly VERY weak. The other isn’t removed yet as i feel rubbish as i’ve got a bug and was up all night. So if both sides is weak and the vehicle swings wildly over it pulls the other side to max length and thus the oval top ring. This what i think happened. With the Airlift airbags i have i will pump them up more with the new shocks and hopefully new shocks will have a good down and up resistance so making the swing from one side to the other a lot less.

I hope thats clear. If you have any helpful comments please post. Any of the "you shouldn't have done that", "and this", "and the other" can just please not post. What i need is some advice and how to solve this not the doom and naysayers that sometimes post.

My best bet is surely to drop the mounts so i can use the standard shocks i can get here. All i can get is standard length in anything. When I don't need a discussion on which shocks to buy either.

Advice please....Thanks

[SmasherWebbs]

There is a big enthusiast landrover group in south Africa. Have you tried contacting any of them? Or are you in deepest darkest Africa?

[SmasherWebbs]

http://www.lroc.org.za/

[steve b]

Hi Neill

Whatever route you take sourcing shocks maybe some sort of check strap would help to take the load at full extension?

Jim Attrill would be a good starting point to contact if you are in SA

You could use the std shock mount to make lowered mts by welding to a lowering plate (6-8mm thick) drilled to match std hole pattern in the chassis, appropriate strengthening webs will be needed

hth

Steveb

[pete3000]

only a thought, could you not use the bottom tubes off the old shocks (rears?) to extend the standards. i.e slide the std shocks inside the old bottom halfs. you could cut the stud to length or leave the nut on to spread the force. Depends of course on diameter and needing a jubilee clip to apply a bit of grip.

or same idea but with the front shocks with the old tops pushed over?

not recommended for thousands of miles, but might get you going in the short term.

Pete

[mmgemini]

Put your phone number up with your location and I'll add that elsewhere.

[mickeyw]

I'd suggest what I think Steve b means.

Take a standard shock, and lower some standard shock mounts (by means of a lowering bracket) to make up for the difference in length. They are a simple flat plate that bolts to your existing chassis hole, with extra holes at the required distance lower down, relatively straight forward fab work.

I imagine std spec stuff will be easier to obtain in your location.

[tweetyduck]

thanks guys. I,ve just seen the replys at the shop and the shop should be called pimp my land rover. They had some dropped top mounts so i got them. I,ve also got some bilstein std b46 253 shocks so as long as the bolts come out i might have what i need. I'm in nairobi luckily so things are easy ish to get although very expensive!!!! Replying off my phone so apologies for the short reply. Ive also amanged to source some bits to redo the intermediate shaft on the trans box. Will get the shocks sorted this pm or tomorrow and then drop the trans. Also had a failed slave cyl but i had a spare and now have a kit to repair the old one. I'll not tell you how much it all cost. Mike i'll send you my phone number for kenya but i might be sorted,, almost.

[Eightpot]

Where abouts are you?

Has the ring actually been pulled into an oval shape, or has the inside worn oval?

Presumably you've got taller springs fitted - obviously this will give you a bit less axle drop when you go into pot holes, maybe this is why it's maxing the shock out? if you can find some standard shocks, probably just as well fitting these, you might find that as they give way a little easier, there is less stress on the shock eyes.

A lowered shock mount may help,Top Range in Nairobi may well stock them, or if you're in SA, British 4x4 in Pretoria or Landy parts 4 Africa in Durban are good.

[zim]

Why not go the other way, use extended shock mounts with longer shocks, this way they won't bottom out.

Have fun !

Stop and visit zim

G

[tweetyduck]

Its pulled oval and fractured the weld on the ring and progressively ruined the rubber.. I got some lowered mounts from Schumacher in Nairobi but they were made by a Monkey so i've taken them back. The holes were in the wrong place. They are making me some more for tomorrow. They were not cheap either !

I've worked out that if i fitted standard Bilsteins (available here) with the current setup that i'd have only 45mm drop before topping out the shocks and 70mm the other way till the bumps hit so i reckon the dropped mounts are the right thing to do giving me 95mm drop and 70mm the other way with the raised bumps. Seems like a better bet to me.

I hope the shock mounts are OK as they say they fit lots here as taller shocks are difficult to get so fitting dropped mounts means they can use standard shocks.

What i'm worried about is 70mm is nearing the min of the shock but i will re-measure it in the day as according to the web the shocks should be shorter than i've measured when compressed. I got 375mm and this seems too long to me, they should be 340mm or something meaning i have plenty left after the bumps hit to allow for compression. If they really are 340mm me set up should be perfect or as near as i can get it. I've also been advised to pump up the airlift to 35psi (the max) as running 2600kg in the car needs more than my 20psi i have in now.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

[Eightpot]

Sounds odd, I did the same route with HD OME springs and standard length Koni heavy trak shocks, and never had a problem, got through a few bushes , but the shocks lasted the whole 25,000 miles. Only just removed them in fact. Maybe those Terrafirmas just aint as firma as they could be...

If you struggle with any bits, I mentioned a place called Top-range (I think thats what it was called, or maybe Hi Range..) it's in T4A from memory, and the address was on the notice board in JJ - it's in the main car accessory shop quarter of Nairobi, maybe on Dar Es Salaam Rd or certainly nearby - Indian guy runs it and stocks lots of Bearmach and genuine stuff. Prices were pretty reasonable as well.

Wish I was there!

[tweetyduck]

Thanks for the advice on the shop. I might pop over there as i need a few items more. Once i got the shocks done i need to drop the transfer box and put a new set of O rings on the intermediate shaft. Its leaking quite a bit so i have to check the level all the time. I also want to see if the hole is going. I certainly hope its not !!!

The travel distance on the shocks has surprised me somewhat. but when you add 95mm to 70mm (or a bit more if you have standard bumps it comes out to 7inches (or more) which is within the travel on the standard landy shock so it must be OK.

[Guest]

Put your phone number up with your location and I'll add that elsewhere.

Neil's location has been changing over the last couple of months.... Password for the map is wherearethey

http://www.overlandbirds.com

[mmgemini]

Neil's location has been changing over the last couple of months.... Password for the map is wherearethey

http://www.overlandbirds.com

Yes I know but if I was going to put a "help" on another forum I would have needed his exact location.Margaret reads his blog every day.

[steve b]

Keep at it Neill , sounds like you are getting there

Bit of a rule of thumb , I know, but if you can get your at rest shock travel roughly mid way and still not bottom on bump, nor put excessive tension on drop - thats why I mentioned check straps- you'll be giving the shocks the best chance to be effective

2nd Eightpot , wish I was there too

Happy trails

Steveb

[tweetyduck]

I've still not got the new mounts and its nearly 1pm here. I want to get it finished so i can see whats what. I got the old crows foot off with a struggle as the bolts were seazed and all the dirt from the roads managed to jump off the chassis top and onto my shirt and trousers. I've never been so dirty !!! I looked like a Jaffa Cake or an oompa loompa. I got a shower and the cleaning lady gave me the stare......The bolts i got are 8.8 and i have new Nylocks so i presume the old bolts wern't 10 rated ??? Can't see why they should be 10 rated.

Once i get the mounts it should only take me an hour and then i can go for a test drive. I'll let you all know where it sits.

If anyone know what length these B46 0253 are officially can you let me know. I can't find the specifications on any site that looks official.

[tweetyduck]

I've replaced te shocks, lowered the mounts. pumped up the airbags to around 30psi ech but made sure the bumps are level at 85mm. The Bilstein shocks give a lots more bounce than the Big Bore i had in and to be honest they seem worse new than the ones i've removed ! At least the top ring isn't going to snap off at any time. I went for a drive down a pretty bad road and they seem to handle it OK (but not great). Maybe this is what a defender should feel like? I've not got much reference other than my own car to go on.

If anyone wants to see pictures of the oval top ring let me know. The shock seems to pull at about 20kg and compress at aroung 3kg so is certainly weaker on compression. I've made a video of the difference and used scales to get the weights . I'd say the extension is normal but the compression is very weak. I based the weigths on a compression / extension rate that just seemed fast enough. I don't think i could have pulled them to extension any faster.

[Eightpot]

Stop fiddling, put the scales away and get the Tuskers on

Your problem might just be that those Terrafirma big bores are just not the right thing for overland - I looked at some when I had to get a new set in SA and they just looked like they were more for show than anything. Didn't like the look of that huge damper bore. If the shocks are too firm, all that impact gets transmitted straight towards the chassis, possibly why the eyes have got destroyed. I suffered a similarish problem with having the springs too stiff - I had inner helper springs on the rear as well as the heaviest duty OME springs I could get. End result was a great firm ride and little roll on bends but got a badly cracked chassis forward of the spring hangers by the time I got to Tanz.

Softer dampers might be just the right thing.

I fitted some standard dampers recently and checked damping under compression and extension - found the same thing, harder one way than the other - but once on the car it made sense as as one side goes up the other has to come down and damping was equal.

[FridgeFreezer]

Agree with Eightpot. You might also have too much weight in the car

[Eightpot]

Yeah, jettison all the tinned cheese and corned beef you've been carrying round for a couple of months

What gets you on the roads round there isn't so much the outrageous pot holes, but the speed bumps. The people who make them have probably never driven a car, so they end up like a shrubbery wall across the road, and on a bright day you can't see them as they always seem to make them in the shadow of a tree across the road, presumably so the worker stays nice and cool while he builds the tarmac wall you're about to hit at 70kph.

Tears the guts out of the bottom of the car. I made the population of a village flee once after letting out a louder than normal tirade after hitting one too many

[tweetyduck]

Hardly say 2600kg is too much weight....i weighed it front and rear axle the day we left (its pretty much balanced also). We've less in now than then. We had (as Eightpot pointed out) a million tins of food left over, which has since been eaten. A lot of Corned Beef and some Spam and a thousand tins of who knows what else. The mackerel tins exploded after 400km of corrugations.....lovely smell in the desert cleaning that up.

I was fiddling so i can show the video and pictures to Ed at Terrafirma. This is the guy that allegedly designed these shocks and the one to which i will direct my info. Theres nothing right about these shocks and to be honest the Terrafirma supplier who sold them to me had already warned me about problems with the top rings. A different problem but not completley unrelated really. Its not the first set that he knows of thats failed strangely.

I laughed at the comments on the speed bumps as this is spot on. I hit three under a bridge the other day just before an army base. I was doing 80kph and my swearing would have been audible in the next country. They may not let me in. I'm sure the guys who design camoflage jackets could learn to make soldiers invisible from using the techniques they use to make the speed bumps here. They cannot be seen until after your car is airborn. (this was after the shock was toast so at least this set wasn't the cause). One thing about Sudan, no speedbumps really, although the one at Jebel Barkal near the Pyramids on a bend was a shock to me and also my freind Henning on his GS.....we both nearly ended up in the sand. Not that it matters now as his GS is in two pieces after Moyale to Marsabit.