CVs

[white90]

The test rig when in action at Billing was with the CV at full lock

in the straight ahead position the CV and shaft would be fairly well balanced.

I always used Britpart for £50 apiece and broke 2 or 3 generally whilst using the ARB and climbing.

[bill van snorkle]

Dave have you done any tests on the difference between shear strength at full lock and with the wheels in the straight ahead position? I guess the CV's are significantly weaker on full lock, just wondered by how much?

Birfields generally fail at, or close to full lock, when the balls roll out to the entrance of the tracks on both the bell and star. I have considerable experience with leaf sprung Stage 1 Landey V8's fitted with lockers, 36'' TSL's and deep reduction crawler gears. These trucks rarely experience CV failure with factory Birfields, due to the fact that the front wheels can only be turned to 26 degrees, compared to 32 degrees on a coiler, so the balls don't roll out as close to the ends of the tracks and the forces are concentrated closer to the thickest part of the bell and star. Also, due to stage 1's having 1 1/2 degrees of camber the cv's don't generally wear steps in the straight ahead position unlike coilers that don't have camber. this is because the balls are always rolling back and forth slightly in their tracks.

I think Daves Cv's probably address most peoples concerns with cv reliability at a price for those that can afford them. For those that can't, with a die grinder you can still improve the reliability of standard issue Birfields by deburring and removing the sharp edges of the tracks on both the bell and star, and winding the steering stops out a little to say 30 degrees. If you installed cutting brakes for sharp turns you could limit the steering angle to 25 degrees and probably never break a cv again.

Bill.

[BogMonster]

The test rig when in action at Billing was with the CV at full lock

in the straight ahead position the CV and shaft would be fairly well balanced.

I always used Britpart for £50 apiece and broke 2 or 3 generally whilst using the ARB and climbing.

Yes I am sure it is stronger but how much?

The point of my question being that if you have big tyres on and carp CV's like mine, and you really need to nail the loud pedal to get up something, will it make a big difference to the chances of breaking a CV trying to do it in a straight line rather than with some steering lock on? A lot of the terrain here is peat as you know, so is very slippery and you can sometimes get all the wheels spinning in 4th low - but under the peat there are often rocks ... and wheels can sometimes grip rather suddenly

[bill van snorkle]

Yes I am sure it is stronger but how much?

The point of my question being that if you have big tyres on and carp CV's like mine, and you really need to nail the loud pedal to get up something, will it make a big difference to the chances of breaking a CV trying to do it in a straight line rather than with some steering lock on? A lot of the terrain here is peat as you know, so is very slippery and you can sometimes get all the wheels spinning in 4th low - but under the peat there are often rocks ... and wheels can sometimes grip rather suddenly

I think you need to go down the road and try to buy Nicks series 2A Roadless Traction Forest Rover with 11.00x28'' tractor tyres.

Bill

[white90]

Stephen

I'd save and get some of Daves

CVs and shafts and worry ye not

I never broke a 32 spline even on simex but then again I didn't leave them in there long enough to really try.

[dirtydiesel]

Hi FYI data from our test rig, all at full lock, 30 deg :

genuine AEU2522 will fail at 4154 ft/lb, bell shatters

cheapo, paddock etc, fail at 4242 ft/lb, stub shaft shear

genuine 32 spline, fail at 3713 ft/lb, usually halfshaft shear in CV

Ashcroft ones, 5734 ft/lb BUT the CV didn't fail, the HD shaft did !

30 degrees, pah mine i'l do 50.

And i suspect the rig may require significant reworking before it see off as mog shaft as well.

[BogMonster]

I think you need to go down the road and try to buy Nicks series 2A Roadless Traction Forest Rover with 11.00x28'' tractor tyres.

Bill

Ah yes the Roadless, I have already told Nick that if he is ever thinking of selling it I want first refusal

Tony I have never broken a CV or a halfshaft either, just worn out a couple of diff centres. That may change when I get around to fitting airlockers (which will be after I stop spending money on my boat, which looks like being a while yet )

Just curious really - mainly because most of the places I might break a CV, it would be somewhat inconvenient ... the top of a mountain ain't like breaking one at Slindon, towing it 1/2 mile to the road and calling the AA ... so any scraps of knowledge that might prevent such circumstances are filed away for future reference

[bill van snorkle]

Ah yes the Roadless, I have already told Nick that if he is ever thinking of selling it I want first refusal

Tony I have never broken a CV or a halfshaft either, just worn out a couple of diff centres. That may change when I get around to fitting airlockers (which will be after I stop spending money on my boat, which looks like being a while yet )

Just curious really - mainly because most of the places I might break a CV, it would be somewhat inconvenient ... the top of a mountain ain't like breaking one at Slindon, towing it 1/2 mile to the road and calling the AA ... so any scraps of knowledge that might prevent such circumstances are filed away for future reference

I doubt that you would have too many problems with cv's in peat bogs, even with lockers, so long as you don't give it too much welly when you have steering lock wound on.

Bill.

[reads90]

Go for Nissan Patrol ones. They are alot stronger than Landy ones

[bill van snorkle]

Go for Nissan Patrol ones. They are alot stronger than Landy ones

I think Nissan ones are too short in the stubshaft to reach through a Rover hub to the drive flange. Toyota ones however have been adapted to LandRovers many times. BTW, it is really only the heatreatment that makes a Toy or Nissan CV stronger than a Landrover one, because internally they are all identical in size, for example, I use Toyota bells with LandRover AEU2522 spiders and balls so that I can retain my 24 spline aftermarket inner half shafts.

Bill.

[reads90]

I think Nissan ones are too short in the stubshaft to reach through a Rover hub to the drive flange. Toyota ones however have been adapted to LandRovers many times. BTW, it is really only the heatreatment that makes a Toy or Nissan CV stronger than a Landrover one, because internally they are all identical in size, for example, I use Toyota bells with LandRover AEU2522 spiders and balls so that I can retain my 24 spline aftermarket inner half shafts.

Bill.

i was not talking about putting thm in a land rover axel

[bill van snorkle]

i was not talking about putting thm in a land rover axel

In that case it would only be worth doing from a cv joint strength point of view if you fit the front axle assembly from the later GU patrols. AFAIK Ashcroft or Longfield higher strength cv's will never be available for Nissans, so if you fit an earlier GQ front end you are stuck with factory CV's which may not be enough for some folk.

Bill.

[reads90]

In that case it would only be worth doing from a cv joint strength point of view if you fit the front axle assembly from the later GU patrols. AFAIK Ashcroft or Longfield higher strength cv's will never be available for Nissans, so if you fit an earlier GQ front end you are stuck with factory CV's which may not be enough for some folk.

Bill.

better than land rover and 4.11 from stock

[bill van snorkle]

better than land rover and 4.11 from stock

I don't disagree, as long as stock is good enough. I know a Jap 4wd Breaker in Melbourne that just cannot get enough GQ nissan CV joints to keep the weekend warriors supplied, so they are obviously not good enough for many, and as stated before, there are no stronger options.

Bill.

[reads90]

I don't disagree, as long as stock is good enough. I know a Jap 4wd Breaker in Melbourne that just cannot get enough GQ nissan CV joints to keep the weekend warriors supplied, so they are obviously not good enough for many, and as stated before, there are no stronger options.

Bill.

Ah yeah but the nissan ones are as strong as the land rover toughened ones, and don't forget you can break the land rover stonger ones. And the nissan axle is rated for a heavyer truck than the land rover. So all in all it is a better option for a land rover

[dollythelw]

Ah yeah but the nissan ones are as strong as the land rover toughened ones, and don't forget you can break the land rover stonger ones. And the nissan axle is rated for a heavyer truck than the land rover. So all in all it is a better option for a land rover

or buy portals

[reads90]

or buy portals

cheaper and easyer to put nissan on

[honitonhobbit]

yeah i've seen a few CV's go,

Seven Sisters- 4:45pm on Sunday in the waterfall- november -5 degrees and quite damp.

Reversing up a bank with full lock. Bit of boot. Bang. CV completely destroyed. Stering locked in position. Q next 3 hours stripping the hub down. 2 cases of near hypothermia and 3 of exhaustion!

So in conclusion- aftermarket CVs could save you from a near death exeperience!

That was Saturday wasn't it. Fruity and Matt were fighting over who got to fix it whilst me and Paul had a competition to see who had the most lights. Big Andy and his mate (who owned the 90 that bust the CV) ended up drinking tea and watching the short blokes fix it...

[callum]

Ah yeah but the nissan ones are as strong as the land rover toughened ones, and don't forget you can break the land rover stonger ones. And the nissan axle is rated for a heavyer truck than the land rover. So all in all it is a better option for a land rover

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/...pic.php?t=30881

if nissan owners are looking to upgrade to longfields and if treated lr cv's from either longfield or ashcrofts live up to their claim of being about as strong as toyota longs, surely that can't be the case? otherwise a lot of wasted effort?

i don't doubt that nissan axles have their advantages, but i'm not sure it lies with cv's

[honitonhobbit]

When it comes down to it, most CV failure is down to driver error.

If like young Jez you NEED the strongest axle your budget will stand you fit a portal, Ashcroft, 'Cruiser, Mog or Dana 60. It's what the budget allows, then you drive to within the ability of your chosen kit.

If like many others it's all part of a 'look what I have got fitted' image to be seen as a roughty toughty off roader does it really matter, you might as well fit stickers and save the money.

When someone like Bill or the Ashcroft family say that they have had problems with a set up or that something works well, you shut up and listen. Then you act on that. That's because this is not hearsay, urban legend or the spoutings of beardless boys - this is fact, fact based on long experience.

[Astro_Al]

cheaper and easyer to put nissan on

Not if you keep breaking the things...

Doesn't exactly sound like the ultimate upgrade to me?

Al.

[dollythelw]

I guess its a straightforward fitment Al, Reads90, how long does it take you to re-fab the mountings when you've done it in the past? radius arm mounts/panhard rod, spring perches etc, Ive only seen a couple of these conversions but never had a chance to get up close to them

are the base axles cheap then?

[FridgeFreezer]

the nissan ones are as strong as the land rover toughened ones, and don't forget you can break the land rover stonger ones.

Ali - am I reading this right? - You're saying the nissan ones are as strong as the uprated LR ones, which are still breakable. In which case why would it be better to bolt a new axle under a LR than just stick a pair of uprated CV's in? unless it's cheaper and quicker to fit the Nissan ones why would you bother? Diff ratio? Clearance? Weight?

Not digging, just doesn't sound quite right to me (but then what do I know )

[dollythelw]

Mr H, please stop being so sensible

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Looking from the pure supply, demand, & availability thing,

Nissan axles are plentiful in Oz ……………I would say that the Patrol outnumber defenders by probably a 1000:1. IIRC the track is different and it’s not a particularly easy conversion (are they ever) …………….. I have seen one close up in Nambour done by a friend of Bro in law ……….. cant remember whether he used MQ or GQ axles. I seemed to remember that a fair bit of fabricating was involved to get it right and there were also some big issues with the steering.

I thought it was the early Patrol axles that were really strong ………….the cart sprung version........... however, I found the old Patrol to be a nice sturdy piece of kit.

Jez ……… I see you have the Barrister hat on today ……….. I'm real busy at the moment sorting out tenders ………. early Sept is looking good ……… I’ll give you a call.

Ian