jad Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Great start to my weekend laning in the lakes! anyone got some suggestions? Plenty of oil. BuildS oil pressure when you first start then goes.recentley cleaned out sump maybe 500 miles ago. Didn't use too much rtv sealant. So oil pump or camshaft bearing that rotates? Cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 As an 'any engine' diesel fitter; Any chance of a sticking relief valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Had a sticking relief valve on the 8210 tractor, it would have plenty of pressure when you start which of course opened the valve, and that's where it stayed! I used to let it warm up for a few minutes and the switch it off, restarting would give good pressure again. Never did fix it as splitting the tractor in my front drive to get the sump of wasn't an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Any idea what oil pressure your getting? Might just be a buggered pressure light switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Definitely not the switch. Yoou van hear the turbo running dry when U turn it off =/ Could be the prv. Will have to get an oil pressure gauge on it at some point to find out. Will call the aa tomorrow morning Cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hi Guys I want to get my car fixed this coming weekend. Its not around for me to take apart so that makes buying replacement parts more of a gamble! I am not sure whether or not to get just the parts to repair the pressure relief valve or just buy a complete pump instead. What do people think? I would replace the whole pressure relief valve system spring etc. Do these parts cover what I need? (Would be buying the genuine parts) spring http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/1366/564456-OIL-PRESSURE-RELIEF-VALVE-SPRING.html?search=564456&page=1 Plunger http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/5991/ETC4880-PLUNGER.html?search=ETC4880&page=1 Copper Washer http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/134/232044-COPPER-WASHER.html?search=232044&page=1 oil pump to block gasket http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/5323/ERR3606-GASKET-FOR-OIL-PUMP-TO-BLOCK.html?search=ERR3606&page=1 Alternatively you can get complete allmakes oil pumps for ~£50 or genuine for ~£180. Are the Allmakes pumps of good quality? or is it worth buying genuine? I will be staying away from britpart for this item! Do people think it worth me buying the parts for the pressure relief valve and hoping that is the problem and then if I find the pump is gone to buy either parts to fix it or a new pump? Also does anyone know the thread size for the 200tdi disco oil switch? Im going to be buying a pressure gauge and wanted to know if this would fit... http://www.machine7.com/product.php?xProd=3265&xSec=1169 Cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 pressure switch is m10 x 1mm. I would get an oil pump "kit" from the likes of turners for 55 quid and rebuild the pump. Everything you need is in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Cheers Didnt think to look on there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 buy everything you think you might need, explain what you are doing to where you are buying it from, and make sure its OK to take back anything you don't use. if you are ordering online, distance selling regulations say you can return it for a refund within 14 days i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hello again! Have started taking my car apart. Nothing is blocking the mesh and the pressure relief valve only has a tiny bit or wear in it. and doesn't seem to be sticking.... This link shows an exploded diagram of the pump http://albritt.de/UNI.cfm?SPRACHE=EN&PAGE=800690&FORK=37794 In front of part 8 there appears to be a ball bearing with no part number. My pump doesn't seem to have this..... Should It be there? I have ordered part 8 and it didn't come with. I also ordered a genuine spring from britcar but it is ~2-3mm shorter than the one I took out. They feel about the same rate though. I fitted my pressure gauge and started the car and it builds oil pressure up to about 40psi and then goes to 0! Anyone have any more ideas with this extra info? Cheers Jad PS my return key doesn't seem to be working while writing this reply although its working otherwise....... :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 it's the same oil pump as in the older Turbo Diesel engines, the parts diagram for the TD oil pump does not show that single ball bearing, just the relief valve plunger & spring, see items 8 & 9 in http://www.numcat.ru/landrover/p/31/53112/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm wondering if you've spun a cam shaft bearing but i dont see why that'd result in no oil pressure if the oil cant escape. Mains and big ends ok? Are you losing oil at all? Are fluids mixing? Any smoke when its running? My only other thoughts if it isnt the oil pump is a cracked head or block perhaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Camshaft bearing has been done before by the garage within the warranty period. Last time the oil light would flicker when hot at idle, not come on completely and not go out again. The engine sounds absolutely fine so don't think it would be mains or big ends... It has only ever leaked oil it doesn't lose any by other means as far as I know.... It has for a long time had a bit of a lumpy idle with a bit of white smoke when cold but has done this for a long time. The timing has been done 2/3 times and im confident its correct. It doesn't mix fluids only black smoke, it doesn't overheat it doesn't pressurise and it goes very well! Im kind of at a loss for other ideas! :/ Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 I may have found the offending item.... The O ring between the pick up pipe and pump wasnt seated properly. Could this have caused it to build pressure get to a certain point and then suck air instead of oil? Not sure why it would fail after many many thousands of miles though..... I have also taken the gears out to have a look at them. What constitues as too much wear? I didnt buy any new gears (mistake) is it ok to turn the gears upside down so they are driving on the other faces? There was some metal sludge in the pump.... but not what I would call excessive since the engine has probably done a significant number of miles! If new gears anyone know where I can get some on a saturday afternoon in bedfordshire? Thanks Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Anyone care to comment? I will buy new gears anyway but could the O ring me the cause of my problems? Im at a loss to what else it could be.... cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 doubt the O ring would cause lose of pressure, more likely the gears are well worn, although my 200tdi with over 300,000 miles on it still gives me good oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Surely though it could start to suck air at a certain pressure (40PSI) and then not stop? If the gears are capable of building 40 psi of pressure then I don't see why the pressure would just drop to 0 all of a sudden? Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Surely though it could start to suck air at a certain pressure (40PSI) and then not stop? If the gears are capable of building 40 psi of pressure then I don't see why the pressure would just drop to 0 all of a sudden? Jad Gears would get replaced if it was me... Oil pressure should be around 55PSi when cold at idle and down to about 25 - 30 when warm. I'm at a bit of a loss with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 this might help diagnose the problem oil pressure faults last but one column on right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hmmm wish there was a no oil pressure column! With big ends/mains I would have thought I would hear something! Ill change the gears next weekend and rebuild it see if there is a difference. If that doesn't make a difference I might try experimenting by replacing the relief valve spring with an Iron rod Cheers Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The O ring looks wrong for the fault. To a certain degree it would suck more air when it was cold and the oil thick. But looking at it I can't see how it sealed? It won't help pressure if there is an air gap either way. The gear looks like it has had metal through it. But was the face damage done when the cam bearing went years back? It woudn't give good pressure looking like that. Cast housing might have survived. If it were RV8 then it would be wrecked, but a steel pump body has more chance of being okay. Next place to look is the filter. Cut it open and see what is in there. Maybe use thinners to 'pan' the contents for metal. That metal from the gears would be enough to jam the relief valve and then clear. Have a really good look down the bore for scratches who's raised edges would make the pluger tighter than it should be. On the face of it with those two faults I cannot say it is an engine fault. They are enough to kill the pressure. But I would pop a cap off to check the crank shells anyway. If only to check the low pressure hasn't exposed the copper base metal. Sometimes an engine clean out can release metal particals and debris trapped in the sludge that cannot be cleaned. But they have to be rancid in the first place and have to have missed a few service intervals. So I'm blaming cam shaft particals of metal and saying those gears have been weakened by that old fault. And took this long to give up. Hopefully everything leaving their face was caught by the filter paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Have you had your timing cover off? If i were you I'd check that the camshaft timing gear bolt is tight. It isn't unknown for the bolt to loosen and allow the camshaft to move backwards which results in little or no oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briarston Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I've got a complete 200tdi pump, fitted with new gears, only done a few miles. (I fiited a new pump to try to improve my oil pressure, it didn't, but I'm not putting the "old" one back) if it's any interest to you. Price negotionable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 The housing on mine is fine so am reusing it. Already ordered new genuine gears! Ta Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 There has clearly been metal through that pump, which tells me there is another fault somewhere as it had to come from somewhere within the engine. I fear that you may have a lot more work to do on that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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