Scam by Scum

[rovernut]

I put my Landy on E Bay in a classified listing. Within the first couple of hours I had a response from a Female supposedly in Ireland who contacted me by text wishing to buy. After an exchange of e mails she said that she was off shore and unable to Bank transfer, would I therefore give my Pay Pal e mail address so that the payment could be made straight away. In her last e mail she said she was buying it for her first son who was about to be adding a year in two weeks and was waiting to see a laughter on his face. She then said that her shipping agent would pick the vehicle up.

Going on the way the wording was strange to say the least, I contacted Pay Pal who informed me that this is the latest scam and in any case I shouldn't accept payment for a car in this way because I would loose 3.25% in transaction charges.

suppose in the end, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is

[Eightpot]

Its an old problem - never accept paypal as payment for high value goods, particularly from anyone in another country.

The money would indeed be paid into your account, the car collected and then the buyer applies for a full refund which paypal will give them. Ebay and paypal always side with the buyer.

[Nigelw]

Is there no real investigation as to why they are/were claiming the refund? I know it may seem silly but they are often perpetuating scams like this by not thoroughly investigating claims!!!

Buyers and sellers can both be victims in any type of transaction!!!

[Aragorn]

Is there no real investigation as to why they are/were claiming the refund? I know it may seem silly but they are often perpetuating scams like this by not thoroughly investigating claims!!!

Buyers and sellers can both be victims in any type of transaction!!!

They do investigate, usually asking you to provide proof that you've completed your end of the transaction. For something posted thats typically easy enough, you provide shipping details/tracking information etc, however when the buyers collected the item its somewhat more difficult to prove that they actually collected it!

You might have a completed V5, but that would obviously be completed with a false address etc, and they'd simply claim "thats not me".

Essentially it boils down to them saying they didnt get the item, and you saying you did give them the item, with no proof either way, at which point they find in favour of the buyer because thats who the protection mechanisms are setup to protect.

[zardos]

Just give the buyer your IBAN number and if they have internet access to look at ebay then they have internet access to do an online bank transfer from any country with your IBAN

[disco2hse]

Classic internet scam. Been doing the rounds for years now, with a number of variations. Usually involving someone stuck on some vessel at sea.

Steer well clear and delete any emails from the scammer.

[sean f]

Always be wary of any one who claims problems paying because they are "offshore". I spent over half the year offshore and although there are sometimes coms problems with phones and internet, internet can also often be slow depending on where you are generally dial up speeds. This can cause a few delays but won't stop access to making a bank transfer.

[Nigelw]

When I bought the V8 Disco off Ebay I was in Belgium and the car in Portsmouth, simple payment via western union and it was delivered to my mums waiting for shipping to me, will admit I was very lucky as I got a spot on motor and was thoroughly impressed by it when it came not a total rot box or anything but I got lucky for once so it seems.

A million ways to pay if you want it bad enough!!!

[mickeyw]

I'd be wary of Western Union payments. I always thought they were associated with stammers too.

[simonr]

They do investigate, usually asking you to provide proof that you've completed your end of the transaction. For something posted thats typically easy enough, you provide shipping details/tracking information etc, however when the buyers collected the item its somewhat more difficult to prove that they actually collected it!

Paypal have a 'Seller Protection Scheme', but it only comes in to effect if you ship the goods to a confirmed pay-pal address. In this case, they will investigate and as a seller, so long as you can prove the goods were delivered to the right person, they will generally find in the sellers favour.

If however, the address is not confirmed, the seller has no protection whatsoever. They just refund the buyer and you loose the goods and the money.

X-Eng found this out the hard way! I suspect someone had posted this scam on a forum somewhere as there was a rash of people buying kit, then telling PayPal they wanted a refund - and us loosing both. They act as if they are investigating, asking for proof of delivery - but it's to confirm it was delivered to an unconfirmed address, then tell you "too bad - you loose!".

Since then I've implemented the code such that we will only accept confirmed shipping addresses. The flip side of this is that we loose about 20% of the PayPal transactions because a user has not confirmed their address, probably innocently in the majority of cases.

If you are selling something on eBay etc, only send it to the buyers address if it's confirmed. The trouble with an eBay purchase is, you only find out after the payment has been made - and not many people want to cancel the transaction and re-list the item. Also, as a seller, you cannot leave them bad feedback, even if they have stolen the goods!

Si

[CwazyWabbit]

I'd be wary of Western Union payments. I always thought they were associated with stammers too.

W-w-w-western union (sorry, couldn't resist ) payments are more of a problem for the person sending the money as they are going on trust that the person will send the goods. So yes they tend to be requested by scamming sellers.

[o_teunico]

Avoid Western Union. Cannot trust in them. As Si, I have found this out the hard way.

Fortunately it was a small sum, 25 Eur. sent to Mexico to a bookstore.

I sent them the Western Union code. They emailed me saying that such code was incorrect. My bank (wich is also a Western Union agent) said that money had already been dispatched in Mexico, but cannot say were or by who. After a formal complaint, I´m still waiting (two months now).

Those 25 Eur. were sent again via Bank to Mexico, as I think that in this case both seller and buyer are victims and a third party has taken the money in the transfer. If this is not the case, the bookstore has fu**ed me twice

[rovernut]

In the case of Pay Pal, Why, when they have been alerted to a scammer (like I did) do they not follow it up. If they were to let the transaction proceed, then act on information given beforehand, refuse the refund. Surely when it becomes known that this scam won't produce the result the scammers are looking for and end up hitting their wallets, this would deter the next generation of scammers.

Having said that, I once had a person buy an airline ticket to Portugal and pay a Hotel bill on my credit card. The card company alerted me to this and refunded the amount to my card. Even though they had a passport number etc of the fraudster, they still would not investigate it as it was considered too costly to follow up. They also said that the Airline was not obliged to give them any information on passengers.

[CwazyWabbit]

It is quite scary the amount of fraud that financial institutions are willing to accept and write off. The recent atm fraud of $45M was not the first incident of that magnitude, I have heard of at least one other of a similar magnitude that was covered up by the banks concerned after investigation as it was deemed cheaper than rectifying the problems that allowed it to happen.