Michele Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 cover plate off you should be able to hold the pushrod with some wire nose pliers and feel free play side to side . The nuts either side of the pedal trunnion shouldbe tight Nuts are tight again after I adjusted them, but apparently I can't ascertain any free play there I'll try again, I decided I'll pull the wing in the meanwhile, clutch pump is the next on the list and I have a certain feeling it's shot too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Apparently I have something else to worry about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiny Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Aaaaahhh, the joys, the absolute joys of series brakes. Hadn't touched series brakes for 10 years until a mate lately purchased a 1978 109 CSW which displayed hte same symptoms. Rock solid pedal was traced to the rear flexible hose collapsing internally, whereupon the master cylinder decided that it didn't like being bled through and gave up the ghost, soaking the footwells in brake fluid (as has also seemed to happen in your case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well, actually mine didn't soak footwells (they aren't in place ), I wasn't able to check any play in the rod after I adjusted the nuts, I heard from the mechanic and he said to let it as it is if the pedal gets back in place after being pushed. I have yet to back the adjusters off a click or two to free up the drums, then everything should be okay finally...? I got busy with DS wing removal (all afternoon!) and this morning I tried bleeding the clutch...air and fluid came out of the bleeding nipple, in same fashion as with the brake MC...my father said the resistance at the pedal increased progressively, but I guess we haven't done yet with the bleeding as it got weak again and we didn't get a fluid really flowing through the hose... Today we'll give it another shot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 You keep asking if you're turning the snail cams the right way, I'm afraid only you will know that. When I first rebuilt m 88's brakes they were all over the shop, some were turn clockwise and some were anti. Since rebuild, I set them all the right way, then used a paint pen on the back plate to mark which way they go to increase adjustment....makes it very easy the next time you come to adjust them (about once a month by the way, for a daily driver!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Awesome...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 When I did the drums on my 109 (1981 - 11" drums at front) I used a power bleeder to get the air out - I used a "Gunson EZI Bleed", which did the job well. http://www.gunson.co.uk/tools.aspx?cat=674 I use the 109 to tow heavy trailers (up to 3500kg) and find the servo assisted drum brakes to be entirely adequate for the job, including one emergency brake situation where an idiot pulled out in front of me from a side road and then immediately stopped to turn down another side road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Stupid front drums still seize, so tomorrow I'll go buying 3 new rubber hoses... But I have a feeling it won't help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 New rubber hoses bought and fitted, this morning we bled, bled, bled, bled, bled. Result: pedal is now as weak as ****, worse then ever, and I ran out of that exotic TWR oil! So I'm nicely screwed for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 New rubber hoses bought and fitted, this morning we bled, bled, bled, bled, bled.Result: pedal is now as weak as ****, worse then ever, and I ran out of that exotic TWR oil! So I'm nicely screwed for now. I revert to my previous comment. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'll either try removing & rotating the backplate as you did, or clamp the cylinders as I did when I first bled. Unless I smash the damn thing with a sledghammer before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'll either try removing & rotating the backplate WORKS, or clamp the cylinders as I did when I first bled. MIGHT WORK Unless I smash the damn thing with a sledghammer before... DOESN'TWORK The best solution is to make another pipe and fit the bleed nipple on the top cylinder. That said, I never got round to it. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I prefer the power bleeder - one man operation, cheap, works. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 The best solution is to make another pipe and fit the bleed nipple on the top cylinder. That said, I never got round to it.Daan Makes sense, but I don't have any clue about how to do it, and most important thing, I don't have the exotic equipment to fabricate my own custom pipes. I don't have a damn thing basically. Power bleeder...we're trying to homebuild one...I think I saw one last time I went to buy some spares and it was probably 70 €!?? Wasted all morning from 8 to 11 bleeding, refitting drums, bleeding again, then again, then again until oil came out of the rubber hose,. And then bled again. Result? Nothing. Pedal is as soft as a rotten corpse. I called the mechanic, he suggested to slacken the nut on the adjustment rod, then try to clamp all the new hoses and release one after one to check... ...to check what, at this point, I have no idea, because I completely lost the plot and I'm just sitting here like a demented zombie. And another week has gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hey Michele ..so the pain continues How about removing the back plate without disconnecting the brake circuit and positioning the backplate so that the bleed nipple is highest - leave the shoes on and re-fit the drum to hold shoes in place, wind the adjusters out to hold drum in place . Use a pipe from the bleed nipple into a jar of fluid so that the end is in the fluid and the jar is higher than the nipple , open up and bleed. Each full stroke of the brake pedal should lower the fluid in the reservoir noticeably . If you have a spare reservoir cap and a bolt in Schrader valve from a tubeless motorcycle wheel , drill cap to take valve and pump with a cycle pump - it only needs a few psi to work or a regulated flow from a compressor , but only say 4-8 psi . the fluid will flow without moving the pedal , just open the nipple . hope that helps Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hey Michele ..so the pain continues How about removing the back plate without disconnecting the brake circuit and positioning the backplate so that the bleed nipple is highest - leave the shoes on and re-fit the drum to hold shoes in place, wind the adjusters out to hold drum in place . Use a pipe from the bleed nipple into a jar of fluid so that the end is in the fluid and the jar is higher than the nipple , open up and bleed. Each full stroke of the brake pedal should lower the fluid in the reservoir noticeably . If you have a spare reservoir cap and a bolt in Schrader valve from a tubeless motorcycle wheel , drill cap to take valve and pump with a cycle pump - it only needs a few psi to work or a regulated flow from a compressor , but only say 4-8 psi . the fluid will flow without moving the pedal , just open the nipple . hope that helps Steveb That's what I used to do for bleeding air out (regular fluid replacement was done without this). It's a faff, because it means removing the hub and stub axle retaining bolts, but it gets good results. The PDWA valve is also a source of air pockets, and that can be cured by bleeding upwards through the slaves to the reservoir with an Ezibleed disconnected from the supplied reservoir caps and fitted to a bleed nipple. Just be careful to start with a near empty reservoir and keep an eye on its levels to avoid over flow and paint damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Frankly I'm disgusted, can't explain it any better. I love the truck but this whole "drum brakes thing" is totally retarded IMO. I'd keep it as last solution, as the small box is a total mess, I have 300 different things started and only a few finished, and sometimes I think I'll never make it and the 109" won't see the light before another year at least. So if possible I'd prefer to pull the hubs too, my head is spinning. Last suggestion from a Series owner in Italy is to inject oil directly into the front bleed nipple, using a big syringe...is it maybe related to the procedure explained by Snagger in the post above? ^I don't have a clue at hydraulic things. Might try that too...it can't get any worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 So I wasted all Saturday trying to bleed these damn brakes. Firstly I followed the advice from the friendly mechanic, the nuts on the adjuster rod were slackened and the master cylinder was checked - again - even if I was quite sure it's okay... Clamped all the new rubber hoses, and the pedal became rock solid. Unclamp rear hose: pedal down half the travel if not a little more. Unclamp PS hose: pedal still rock solid. Unclamp DS hose: pedal maybe down 1 cm. So in my humble ignorance I would've said air "was" in the rear brakes and MC is just fine. I then locked the drums using the adjusters then backed them off a hair. Then the rest of the day went soon down the drain as my father, trying to help, brang along a certain "expert" who, of course, didn't have a damn clue about Rovers, and he insisted trying to bleed with the MC still "free", which in my humble ignorance is no good?!? As result, more brake fluid wasted and my blood pressure went through the roof... Later this evening I'll start from basics again, trying to set correct pedal height (even if the floor is missing) and adjusting the rod/MC again. Then we'll try pressure bleeding using a homebuilt pressure bleeder, and/or the syringe method. We think there're bubbles shuttling all around when bleeding, and apparently they don't want to go away??! Hopefully an ex collegue (mechanic/test driver) should come to try and help me, or I'll have to pay the mechanic to come a long way to check these cr@ppy things on his own, because I'm close to run out of good will and may destroy everything with a big hammer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 I went down to register the MC pushrod (by feel as I can't detect 1,5mm play!!no way!), and... ... ... ... ...brakes work now. Pedal is just fine. Don't ask, because I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Ah the power of the new moon.... Good to hear Michele , once they are bedded in , all your worries about brakes from the last century will fade cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks! Still, with respect to all purists, getting rid to something so temperamental and upgrading to a better system is high on my priority list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Oh its not over yet, wait till you drive it and get them all wet............ Kidding....... well done for managing to get them working, your other test will be trying to live with them. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Thanks! Well I admit the brake cylinders are far from being new and perfect, but I just need it to pass the mot check, then I'll be free to move her around and start improving things. Like...disc brakes. And other $tuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 But but but..... lots of people say Series brakes are hard to bleed. They're not, they are just counter-intuitive. You have to BACK OFF all the adjusters first, so that when you pump and pump and pump, there's this mass of fluid that rushes out of the system when loosen the nipple as all the brake cylinders do their bit. It really works. If you remember to readjust the brakes afterwards (you will be reminded very quickly if you don't). And disks are miles better in every way. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 I hope I'm done for a while but thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.