axle strength....

[De Ranged]

I know this subject has been done to death.... I've spent most of yesterday on the net researching it

but most forum's end up in a competition of egos over this subject

I've done my gearing calculations and using the LT95 transfercase and the Commy auto, in sticky mud I'll be happily pulling 2nd with either a 3.5 ratio just enough to hold second (rover diffs) or 4.1probably have to hold it in second (probably hilux diffs)

What I'm after is sufficent strength to happily run an aggressive 35" tyre at simple competition level (club winch comps, teams events)

More interested in what I can build than what I can buy, if the consensus is go Toy parts or safari then I'll build something like this...

But my landy is about a cheap toy not flash american style build

I currently have a set of Range Rover 10 spline axles that I've build up the rear... shaved

Axle tubes have been braced internally (you can see some of the plug welds in the pic above)

and I've added extra posts for another set of calipers for fiddle brakes, the rear has an ARB but its 10 spline I do have extra axles available from a mate

I was planning on pegging the diffs but I'm uncertain if I should continue with these axles... is it worth it, what sort of cost am I looking at ?

I know toy stuff inside and out if you guys say its a waste of time with the rover stuff I'll build another set of the grey axles with 4.1 hilux heads and 75series banded CV's and semi floating hilux rear axles... but I'd rather not as this truck is about extreme fun on a budget lol

[Jamie_grieve]

I'd say you'd be better to use Toyota stuff especially as it's easier to get in NZ than Rover stuff and if you're at an event and break a C.V you've got more chance of finding someone with a spare Toyota C.V than a Rover one. Without spending money on Ashcroft or KAM or some other aftermarket shaft there's no way a Rover front axle can handle 35's reliably with the power you'll put through them at club events unless you rethink your power plant and drop in a N/A diesel or a 2 1/4 petrol instead.

The rear's are quick enough to change and should last for a while. Sticking in 24 spline parts isn't worth the hassle and in fact depending on the year and whether India was making steel from old toasters or washing machines and if it's OE then a ten spline can even be stronger.

Just to back up where I'm coming from (not just because I've run fleets of Land Rovers and Toyotas for a living) looking at the graphs below stolen from Ashcroft's site and also good info in the KAM link below you'll see that the yield strength of both front or rear shafts is around 3000ft lbs or just over 4000Nm if you're metric. the overall reduction using your LT95 is 48 : 1 which would let you have a maximum 62.5ft lbs of torque from your engine if a wheel had lots of grip. Normally the torque is distributed between more than one wheel but with a locker it can happen. A smaller tyre will normally spin out and break traction before the shaft will break but when you start running bigger grippy tyres with lockers there just isn't any margins left in the original parts designed for a 1600cc Rover back in the day.

I think Toyota half shafts are good or about 4500 or 5000ft lbs but not sure, lots more than the Rover anyway and stuff like brakes and bearings are easier to find. I'd use Land Cruiser axles rather than Hilux to avoid having a centred rear diff and an offset front to drag two ruts through the mud and bounce of the crown between deep ruts. Offset diffs are better.

If you do use the 10 spline stuff it would probably be mostly fine with an auto and a sympathetic driving style.

http://www.noposer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Guida-alle-applicazioni-KAM.pdf

[Team Idris]

33" SAT's with the original LT95 'shock reducing centre diff' were fine for comps and trials. Never done a crown wheel, cv or a half shaft in 20 years with the 10 spline stuff. But 33" insa turbo special tracks with the ZF22 auto and normal centre diff were too much for the axel diffs centre pins on winch challenge. The rear centre pin went when I dropped a gear on the auto at 5mph and the front broke when near stationary (less than 0.5mph). But were they just very worn with age?

I fixed it with KAM lockers and Ashcroft shafts. And that's a hell of a lot of money just so I can listen to a V8

But I believe there's nothing standard that will take a good kicking in a winch event, no matter what tyre, if you want to win? (or just want to drive it back onto the trailer at the end of the day without a major strip every event)

[De Ranged]

Hmmm thats what I was expecting you'd say... kinda hoping there was some options for the rover stuff, but given I'm already planing on dropping a super charger on the commy there really was no hope LOL

Oh well guess the custom axles route it is

Thank you for the advice

[ToyRoverlander]

A mate of mine broke 2 halfshafts and 1 diff centre pin.... on the street! That was when the 3B wasn't even turbocharged yet and 7.50-16 tires . First halfshaft was just ridiculous, he drove of the curb into traffic and when the rear wheel came down it snapped the shaft...

We both run dual E-locked LC80 axles now, his is on 35", mine on 33"s.. no issues anymore

[FridgeFreezer]

Given the fact that Japanese stuff is more locally available, it's a no-brainer IMHO. Why faff about with the turd polish?

In the UK rover stuff has availability in its favour if nothing else.

[rick]

You can graft in a GQ or GU Patrol front end, much stronger than Toy and possibly easier to do (the radius arms pretty much bolt straight in, panhard, spring perches, etc need sorting)

Quite a few here in Oz run GQ front and 80 Series rear.

[De Ranged]

Not so keen on the patrol stuff diff nugget is too big... with 35" tires I'm at the same point as a hilux with 33"s.... since I'll be on 4.1's near on the strongest ratio for the 8" diff (4.375 is the strongest) peg the diffs and some cheap chinese lockers I'll never brake a diff

As for the housings and axles.... I have that custom setup on CAD from last time I made em so I'll do it again, the back is 40series offset but using hilux semi floater axles (never heard of one braking) up front, prado CV's and swivel housings, same as 75series cruiser and alot easier to find, you sweet on a band onto the cv bell and you have near on the same strength as longfields for a fraction of the cost

LC80 are a nice idea but are still selling for $2000+ for an axle set and thats before I do anything to them, the above setup I can do for $2500 and a few free hrs machining.... the other bonus is alot of the stuff I need for this is stuff that my wrecker mates don't normally sell unless to me and being a personal project they'll be easy to convice to do trades instead of coin LOL so it'll be alot cheaper

[rick]

I've seen a GQ high pinion CWP grafted into a Landy housing

A bit of work but doable

[RangeyRover]

If you can do machining, the toy diffs in your rover axle housings might be best. Still need custom shafts though.

[De Ranged]

Lol why keep the rover housings I'll just do high clearance housings I'll gain an inch more clearance along the whole axle compared to the rover axle

[ToyRoverlander]

I've seen a GQ high pinion CWP grafted into a Landy housing

A bit of work but doable

Why on earth would one do that ? Way easier to weld on axle brackets and such than doing that...

[bill van snorkle]

If you can do machining, the toy diffs in your rover axle housings might be best. Still need custom shafts though.

As above. A fairly common and successful conversion that is also cost effective and less time consuming due to retaining your existing banjo housings. Cut and shut the shafts with half Toyota and half Salisbury, using the hollow bar/plug weld method for now. With luck it may prove to be a permanent solution like my cut and shut inner front shaft.

[Landy-Novice]

since I'll be on 4.1's near on the strongest ratio for the 8" diff (4.375 is the strongest) peg the diffs and some cheap chinese lockers I'll never brake a diff

there was a test done by ARB who compared their lockers to the cheap ones. (im certain it is fixed/bias in there favor) but the outcome was quite different.

just wondering, you got any experiences with the cheap Chinese arb lockers?

[De Ranged]

LOL it was very good of them to post that video up with the data... couple of points that was a new ARB compared to a copy of there original one they have modified the internals, next notice in the vid the side gear teeth on the copy are not ground they are just a cast profile, the company we deal with would replace the unit if we showed them pics like that now after all that notice the difference in the amounts its less than 10%..... now and this is the telling point for me and you have to watch closely they don't make a point of it but when they show you the damage to the copy you just get to see the axle the axle has been deformed past plastic its f'd and a throw away.....

Now this is where my experiance comes in, did you know that hilux and landcruiser use the same spline and inner axle size (they have different diff sizes) now a worked 350 with locked axles for you old school guys or for the modern crowd worked LS2 both running cruiser gear..... the failure they have is the gear train.... transmissions and transfer cases, the only failure of the drive train was CV's on the 75 series front axle on the 350 powered 40 series, the LS2 trials buggy runs 80 series and routinely replaces his each season and hasn't had a failure yet and they have been dyno'd at over 600 hp now all this on 9.5" diffs... I know the axles are stronger than I need and if it is damaged in there test even a carp copy is more than adequate to do the job LOL since I'm only V6 at best blown I'm only really looking at half that hp so 8" will do and from my experiance will be the weak link

Don't let ARB's hype put you off, the major chinese manufactures don't want a bad rep... and yes they are outright copies LOL down to the ARB logo on the switches.... my view on supporting ARB has more to do with there pricing I have mates in Aussy land where they are made, and there buy cost (trade) is almost twice what I can get a genuine ARB from the USA(saddly killed by shipping) now if there mark up is that great they deserve the competition next there parts back up is not there for there older model, I have clients who have had to throw there genuine unit out due to parts not being able to be replaced... this surprised me for such a big brand and has cost them following then stack up I can buy a pair of lockers a pump and all the mounting hardware for the same price as just a single ARB unit and that is with shipping

As for experience I haven't heard of a single blown copy locker but I have heard and experienced fitment issues... with some, requiring machining to fit properly... this was with the earlyer ones and for smaller market groups (pajero) I haven't heard any issues with the toy stuff, it sounds like an importer mate is putting in another order so we'll see if there is any change... pretty certain he is just getting toy stuff

[missingsid]

I've done my gearing calculations and using the LT95 transfercase and the Commy auto, in sticky mud I'll be happily pulling 2nd with either a 3.5 ratio just enough to hold second (rover diffs) or 4.1probably have to hold it in second (probably hilux diffs)

Maybe I misunderstood. The LT95 is a single cased combined gearbox and transferbox, are you machining the gearbox off the front of it.

[De Ranged]

Maybe I misunderstood. The LT95 is a single cased combined gearbox and transferbox, are you machining the gearbox off the front of it.

Yep.... I'm a cheap person I'm not that keen on I happen to have a couple of LT95 box's they have a really good transfercase gear reduction (alot better than the jab stuff) and I can make a PTO output using the second box... got the idea from Soren off here from a couple of pic's I've managed to fill in the blanks and cheat a little on the machining lol

[missingsid]

I have LT95 gearboxes for another LR but one has a blown Trnsfr box,the case is strong as are the gears except dodgy plastic cages needle roller bearings. Too much load in them and the cages melt locking up the box and destroying the case.

101services (cant remember real name) used to sell a bearing conversion but when I called had stopped due to lack of interest nowadays. Just my luck.

[bill van snorkle]

I have LT95 gearboxes for another LR but one has a blown Trnsfr box,the case is strong as are the gears except dodgy plastic cages needle roller bearings. Too much load in them and the cages melt locking up the box and destroying the case. 101services (cant remember real name) used to sell a bearing conversion but when I called had stopped due to lack of interest nowadays. Just my luck.

It is actually not too difficult to bore out the 3 intermediate gears to accept taper roller bearings.

A new stepped intermediate shaft and preload nut also needs to be machined up. Don't copy Landrovers own taper roller solution for the OZ military Perenties though. The shaft bends from gear side thrust.

I'm sorry, I never did record the part numbers or bearing dimensions.