more power from 2.5n/a

[jameshub]

ok so the topic may make a few laugh, but yes I am asking if anyone has any idea's what I can change/ add to give my 2.5n/a more power (and that doesn't include taking it out and putting a 200TDi engine in, as I just don't have the fund for that!)

is it the case that having the timing belt changed and adjusted correctly will do this?

anything else?

[Gazzar]

Well, if it isn't at the correct tune, then perhaps the injectors/ IP need an overhaul?

Thereafter you could get the cylinder head ported, and the inlet/exhaust system gas flowed.

Maybe get a cam shaft custom ground?

You might stick a turbo on, add an intercooler, improve the cooling.

But but by the time you have all that done you'd be knocking on the door of a Tdi in terms of cost, but with an engine that is more marginal in terms of mechanical reliability.

[Mr Ian]

Hi have a look at LPG, this will give an instant power boost to any diesel, but needs to be done properly,! Ian Ashcroft

[Ash.Witty]

You are talking about a N/A 2.5 diesel unfortunately there is no point wasting good money on the engine, put it to one side and save for a TDi.

I had one it was rubbish, 20mph up hills compared to a tweaked 200Tdi which pulled 60+mph.

[jameshub]

You are talking about a N/A 2.5 diesel unfortunately there is no point wasting good money on the engine, put it to one side and save for a TDi. I had one it was rubbish, 20mph up hills compared to a tweaked 200Tdi which pulled 60+mph.

what would a TDi cost me - roughly?

[Bowie69]

The cost of a rusty Disco, less what you get for weighing it in. £3-500 best guess.

[Eightpot]

The n/a engines get a bad press, and when they're not in good tune they do feel awfully underpowered.

If the general state of the engine is good though, taking time to properly set up the injection timing, a new timing belt and maybe recon injectors transforms them. In a 90, a good n/a engine pulls perfectly well, so worth doing the basics first.

[jameshub]

The n/a engines get a bad press, and when they're not in good tune they do feel awfully underpowered.

If the general state of the engine is good though, taking time to properly set up the injection timing, a new timing belt and maybe recon injectors transforms them. In a 90, a good n/a engine pulls perfectly well, so worth doing the basics first.

that makes sense, now I hope the manual explains how to do this as i'm a little new to all this. The engine is a recon one straight from MOD which has only done 90,000 kilometres so I wonder if its time for a new timing belt as you suggested?

[Ash.Witty]

You also have to remember it only has 67Bhp as new to pull a 1 1/2 tonne 90 or 2 tonne 110. I think it will still feel underpowered whatever you do to it, it will be very reliable but you won't be getting anywhere in a hurry. Tdi all the way. unless you live somewhere flat.

[jameshub]

everyone says get a 200TDi but why not a 300TDi?

[discomikey]

the simplicity of the install, the overall reliability (300's some say tend to go through a few more headgaskets and skims than the 200's)

and 80% of the difference is personal preference, ultimately they are much the same.

i assume you dont have PAS, if not, and you dont intend to fit it, then a 200's PAS pump can be removed easily, the belt system on a 300 means it may not be so simple.

although if you buy a donor disco, you get the PAS for free anyway.

plus, you need to consider MPG, how much does your N/A do to the gallon? are you flat to the floor all the time, using more diesel than neccessary, if so it may be possible to see a return of the cost of the engine in fuel consumption gains within a year or so.

[jameshub]

the simplicity of the install, the overall reliability (300's some say tend to go through a few more headgaskets and skims than the 200's)

and 80% of the difference is personal preference, ultimately they are much the same.

i assume you dont have PAS, if not, and you dont intend to fit it, then a 200's PAS pump can be removed easily, the belt system on a 300 means it may not be so simple.

although if you buy a donor disco, you get the PAS for free anyway.

plus, you need to consider MPG, how much does your N/A do to the gallon? are you flat to the floor all the time, using more diesel than neccessary, if so it may be possible to see a return of the cost of the engine in fuel consumption gains within a year or so.

very valid points..... I recently bought a PAS from a 200TDi but have yet to fit it, so I guess there is one reason + my N/A is not good on fuel at all, so there is another reason

are the 200TDi also a lot quieter than N/A?

Thanks

[Bowie69]

300TDI means you get the turbo up the top, and out of the way of the inner wing IIRC, so in that respect it can be a better option for transplant.

I think the TDIs are generally more noisy than the NA, as they are direct injection, 300TDI is reputedly slightly quieter, but they are all tractor engines at the end of the day

[jameshub]

300TDI means you get the turbo up the top, and out of the way of the inner wing IIRC, so in that respect it can be a better option for transplant.

I think the TDIs are generally more noisy than the NA, as they are direct injection, 300TDI is reputedly slightly quieter, but they are all tractor engines at the end of the day

oh well, i'll give up on the idea of putting a radio in, as no sound proofing and a N/A it's already impossible to hear anything!

[discomikey]

you can get a TDi to be "muffled" enough, i did on my series and its relatively quiet at over 70, yes, over 70!

[jameshub]

300TDI means you get the turbo up the top, and out of the way of the inner wing IIRC, so in that respect it can be a better option for transplant.

I think the TDIs are generally more noisy than the NA, as they are direct injection, 300TDI is reputedly slightly quieter, but they are all tractor engines at the end of the day

ok so if I was to just use my Defender with the 2.5n/a for off-road (I don't mean too extreme) and less for road, then does the 2.5N/A pull and perform off-road as well as the 200TDi?

[Bowie69]

N/A:

Power: 68 hp (51 kW) @ 4,200 rpm

Torque: 114 lbf·ft (155 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm

200TDI:

Power: 111 hp (83 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (Discovery and Range Rover)

107 hp (80 kW) @ 3,900 rpm (Defender)
Torque: 195 lbf·ft (264 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Discovery and Range Rover)
188 lbf·ft (255 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Defender)

More than 50% torque and power from a TDI, HOWEVER, have you actually given it a tune up and driven it off-road? Do you find it lacking? I would suggest if you haven't then do so and see what you can do with what you have...

THEN, if you find you find you need more, go for the TDI. Remember the MoD only ever used the 2.5 N/A in 90's and Defenders until maybe year 2000 ish, so if they can cope, I am sure you can

[jameshub]

N/A:

Power: 68 hp (51 kW) @ 4,200 rpm

Torque: 114 lbf·ft (155 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm

200TDI:

Power: 111 hp (83 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (Discovery and Range Rover)

107 hp (80 kW) @ 3,900 rpm (Defender)

Torque: 195 lbf·ft (264 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Discovery and Range Rover)

188 lbf·ft (255 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Defender)

More than 50% torque and power from a TDI, HOWEVER, have you actually given it a tune up and driven it off-road? Do you find it lacking? I would suggest if you haven't then do so and see what you can do with what you have...

THEN, if you find you find you need more, go for the TDI. Remember the MoD only ever used the 2.5 N/A in 90's and Defenders until maybe year 2000 ish, so if they can cope, I am sure you can

no I've never used it off-road as I've been basically working on the bodywork and as this is my 1st Landy, I've been gradually learning about them and the workings of them inside and out (as you'll probably see by some of my idiot questions on these posts!)

as you say, if the MOD can cope with them, then its good enough for me...

i'm basically at the stage now where I need to spend money on things like, Tyres, Winch etc etc but I don't want to spend money doing these things if the power makes off-roading (when I come to do this) pointless + snow is coming so I need tyres etc for this

what do you mean by 'Tune up'??

[Bowie69]

Well only as much as Gazzar said, oil & filters all changed, timing checked, injectors and injection pump checked, probably by a specialist, but would probably save you money in the long run in fuel economy...

[RustyNissanPrairie]

A sorted 2.5NA is better than a TDI for pure offroad situations - more torque low down and no turbo lag.

My 2.5NA has been great in an overland 110 which was running a 1.2 ratio transfer box and pulled a fully loaded Ifor Williams 3.5t box trailer for awhile!

I have a really low mileage Defender 200tdi engine on a pallet thats been sitting in my workshop for 2 years but I still havnt gotten round to fitting as the 2.5NA has been good enough.

It does take some analytical twiddling to get them spot on though, I rebuilt my injectors and set the timing dynamically with a fuel pipe pulse detector tool.

Bigger ported head, bigger airfilter, increased fuelling, Sorted.

[jameshub]

A sorted 2.5NA is better than a TDI for pure offroad situations - more torque low down and no turbo lag.

My 2.5NA has been great in an overland 110 which was running a 1.2 ratio transfer box and pulled a fully loaded Ifor Williams 3.5t box trailer for awhile!

I have a really low mileage Defender 200tdi engine on a pallet thats been sitting in my workshop for 2 years but I still havnt gotten round to fitting as the 2.5NA has been good enough.

It does take some analytical twiddling to get them spot on though, I rebuilt my injectors and set the timing dynamically with a fuel pipe pulse detector tool.

Bigger ported head, bigger airfilter, increased fuelling, Sorted.

blimey you certainly know your stuff, unfortunately this is my first project so i'm on a steep learning curve. So if I was to take this to a garage, what would I ask them to do? - setup the injectors etc?

[jameshub]

anyone ever tried this stuff Millers injecter cleaner?

[RustyNissanPrairie]

The injector nozzles themselves are pretty cheap for the Lucas/Cav injectors, you can strip them without affecting the cracking pressure. I set mine to 135bar which is higher than standard. I also experimented with non Pintaux nozzles but the trade off for extra flow wasnt worth the hassle of trying to start it when cold.

Dont bother taking it to a garage, it'll cost a fortune and they wont get it 100% anyway.

The good thing with a 2.5NA is its bulletproof and dead simple, download/read all the information you can find and twiddle yourself - its the only way you'll learn, unless your an estate agent or accountant then you might as well sell it now.

[jameshub]

The injector nozzles themselves are pretty cheap for the Lucas/Cav injectors, you can strip them without affecting the cracking pressure. I set mine to 135bar which is higher than standard. I also experimented with non Pintaux nozzles but the trade off for extra flow wasnt worth the hassle of trying to start it when cold.

Dont bother taking it to a garage, it'll cost a fortune and they wont get it 100% anyway.

The good thing with a 2.5NA is its bulletproof and dead simple, download/read all the information you can find and twiddle yourself - its the only way you'll learn, unless your an estate agent or accountant then you might as well sell it now.

i'll have a look in my book as i'd have no idea how to replace or set them up. too be honest I don't even know how many there are!

[RustyNissanPrairie]

ok - if you dont know how many injectors a 4 cylinder engine has then forget any notions about pulling them apart and replacing the nozzles. No offence and all that but for now stick to the simple stuff like valve clearances, oil&filter changes etc.

If its your first landrover and you new to spannering- you'll be busy doing all the usual stuff that a landrover throws at you!