Supermansam Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hi guys, Recently had my slave clutch cylinder replaced, since then my landy has struggled to start up from cold. I have checked around the slave unit to see if any wires had been knocked/ loosened- nothing all fine. I have checked voltage on battery- first thing in morning it reads 12.6v - glow plug warm up drops to around 11.5v and on turn over/start up drops to 10.9v. after 15 second or so it reads 13V and slowly increases up to 14.2v. Also on first startup it sounds really rough until i give it a little gas then it settles down. I have just bought some glow plugs but not fitted them yet. Any ideas (I hope its not the starter motor, haven't a clue on how to change that thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Loose or perished injector leak off pipes are the usual suspects,or any joints in pipework in the feed from the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Does it crank OK or is it slow? If it's slow then that could be loads of different things but the most likely are a poor battery or a dodgy earth strap. On a 200Tdi you shouldn't need the glow plugs unless it is really cold, but I suppose some engines are better than others. You can just take the glow plugs out and put 12v across them. If they glow red then they are OK. Mine is a little lumpy when it first starts but that soon clears so I wouldn't worry about that too much. But if you have to keep cranking it over to get it started then I suspect it might be a lack of fuel. This could be air getting into the fuel system somewhere, fuel filter blocked or just old, dodgy lift pump or even issues with the injector pump and/or injectors. Once it gets going is it all OK? Is it down on power? When it's running, lift off the oil filler cap and see if there is any smoke and pressure in there. These could indicate a valve or headgasket problem (or other things) which could also cause it to be a bugger to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hi, you've not really described what you're experiencing... Is the engine cranking over and not starting, or is the engine refusing to turn over? From the readings of your battery, it looks to be healthy. But you have a few things you can do to fault find. Could try a different battery? Starter motor could be getting tired, but it could also be a bad main engine earth. there should be a thick cable going from your battery negative to a bolt/stud on your gearbox/transfer box, always worth taking that off and giving it a clean. Also make sure your actual battery contacts are healthy too. Do you have any battery isolator in the circuit? as this can cause poor contacting issues too. When my starter was on its way out, I found the engine ran a bit lumpy on start up too, but after I fixed the problem, having a strong starter seamed to make the engine run a lot smoother from the start up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Sorry for the lack of info, it turns cranks over 3-4 times then slowly starts. (it acts as if it was a flat battery, if you get what i mean) before the slave got replaced if was easy to start, never has a problem in March with the -2 temperature. I usually turn onto glowplugs, back off, back to glow plugs and then start it up. it use to start instantly, but now its 3-4 cranks and is very sluggish at turning over. it not just in the morning, when I drive to work (30 minsish) and check it at dinner time same symtoms. but if i try and start it after say an hour after turning it off, starts no problem. the battery has been replaced feb this year and like i said never had this problem unit the slave clutch got replaced., leak off pipes have been replaced (had them disintigrate on me when driving up a steep country lane, not fun when it comes to a stop with traffic all behind you) I will check battery terminals, Earths to see if I have missed something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Tetsu0san not low on power, its only lumpy for 10-20secs, if I give it a bit of gas it calms down and goes to normal running does this sound like fuel problem then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm tempted to say the earth strap for the engine or power feed to starter hasn't been refitted correctly, hence the slow crank -IIRC the starter and slave cylinder almost occupy the same space on a 200TDI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If the connections all look ok another idea might be the starter motor/solenoid might be full of mud or on the way out as this will make it crank real slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Thanks, Ill have a look when it stops raining, flash flood at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If you have a GOOD jump lead, try clipping it between the battery negative terminal, and a nice solid metal point on the engine and see if it gets any easier to start. If so, its a bad earth wire as mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If everything was OK before the clutch slave then it has to be an earth strap either dirty or not connected. They may have removed it when then fitted the slave cylinder but I can't think why unless the strap was attached to the bellhousing on the slave cylinder bolts. Hopefully it is as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 isn't the engine earthed from a point on the transfer case? so no where near the slave. more likely to have moved the pos feed to the starter as that's right above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 My 110 has an earth strap right near the bellhousing on both sides. Might be an afterthought on someones behalf but it is still there and could be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 200tdi defender should have a earth cable from battery neg terminal to one of the main gearbox to transfer box bolts & a second earth cable from engine block PAS pump/Alternator mounting bracket to chassis bracket of left engine mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Trucks have a nasty habit of throwing up a problem that is not directly related to the first problem, especially if something has been disturbed. If its cranking slowly, definitely something to do with your starter circuit as apposed to your fuel system. The correct way to do any kind of maintenance, especially around the starter area would be to remove the Neg-VE off the battery, so you don't accidently make a short with a spanner or such like... (been there done that...). I'd start looking your battery to make sure the terminals are nice and clean and tight. then work up the system checking other big contact points. Aragorn mentioned a good test, which you should do. Fuel system problems wont effect the crank speed, a healthy starter and battery should be able to turn the engine over and it sounds like a tommy gun going off (that kind of speed of firing) - I was doing it last night with fuel stop solenoid disconnected, to allow the oil system to prime after an oil change. Have you got a genuine Delphi/Vaelo/Bosch starter? - I had a Brit part one on (an unfortunate emergency) and re-built the old Valeo one with a Brand new solenoid and some tlc. The Brit part one lasted about 22k miles and about 2 yrs, then it was the solenoid that had gone duff - couldn't/didn't want to replace so it went in the bin. It was night and day re-installing the Valeo unit back in. I'd had rough starting pretty much for the whole time the britpart starter was in. As much as it might make sense something happen to it when you had the work done, I wouldn't focus too much on that as it could just be a coincidental failure of something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Ive just tried a jump lead from the starter negative to the battery negative and no change. there is a earth strap from the chassis rail just below that leads to the starter motor fixting bolt. the postive lead to motor is on the top of the motor. should there be another wire from the motor to the chassis(earth) I cant see it but to be fair I haven't had chance to remove the turbo down pipe to look properly (just on the lunch break) Not sure on the starter motor make (ITS BLACK) sound like a woman I know. I will have a proper look on sunday when I can take bits off. I have just remove a glow plug and it is caped in black carbon. could this be the culprete? if I havn't solved it on Sunday, I will take a pic from underneath to see if it helps shed any light on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The Black wire from the lower terminal on the solenoid should just go to the body of the unit, the starter itself is bolted to the gearbox bell housing, so that is the effective earth contact. Sounds like you could have got a poorly starter motor... But before you go nuts, its worth checking the +ve terminals too, make sure everything is nice and tight, with such a high current going through them on start-up, the connections can break down if loose and or dirty. if all contacts check out, I'd be looking at getting a replacement starter motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Thanks. Ill have a look tonight if it stays light. Thanks for all the advice. Hope I dont need a new start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Just an update. Changed the glow plugs all were black but one was covered in oil. Not sure if that is correct. Checked bolts and live feed all ok. When I attempt to start it sounds and acts like a flat battery (which it isn't had a meter over it) after 3- 4 seconds it starts up. If I turn off and try start again its instant. Does it sound like starter needs replacing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'd say you've tried all the other logical steps to disprove other theories, I think the only thing that is left is the starter motor. A general word of advice. If something needs removing to make a job speed up, i.e. removing something to get better access. just get on and remove it, you'll spend twice as much time trying to do the job with the other bits in the way - and probably end up having to take the bits off anyway. Its a bit against the grain, but its 1 step back to take 2 forward... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks. Gonna drop down pipe and remove washer resovior. Hopefully should be able to get decent access that way. Just need to buy a new motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 Thought id try landy one last time before attempting starter Oh dear. Held key on ignition for around 5 seconds. It then started up. Really lumpy and was almost stalling on idle Decided to give it a little gas to help warm it up. Billows of whit smoke coming out of the exhuast. I take it that the starter may not have been the problem. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Head gasket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermansam Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 Aahhh dont say that. Say something like fuel filter. I havent been getting any hot readings from temp gauge and I cant see any mayo in the oil filler cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 White smoke is usually put down to water in the computation, due to a head gasket failure... There are also some quite subtle head gasket failures, which don't always lead to water in oil or oil in water I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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