Andy-T Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Hi Guys, I usually import drums of 2000 or 3000ft ( 609mtrs/915mtrs) to get the best carriage rate from the USA. I am happy to supply any length you want and can transfer it on to a smaller drum. The only thing limiting the drumsize/length is the weight, I have brought in 5000ft drums in the past but they are just to difficult to handle. It is also hard to find a low cost carrier in the UK willing to handle more than 20kgs. Food for thought. Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 14mm (37900lbs NBS) has never been supplied in the UK for vehicle mounted electric or hydraulic winches used in the offroading scene. It is to thick and as a result, you don't get very much on, the law of deminishing returns applies here. Sorry to disagree Andy but you may need to look at your records as i have 14mm, and i bought it off you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I broke Plasma 12 12mm on the rear MM winch when used in er "Anger" The fact it broke is one thing - the fact my 6/8mm rear winch mounting was ripped torna dn twisted beyond repair says much abiout the strength of the Plasma 12 However, I think I may have invalidated the warranty so didn't pursue Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Tim if you have Bowrope it will be 10mm as there is no 9.5mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Tim if you have Bowrope it will be 10mm as there is no 9.5mm Yep - mine is 10mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Tim if you have Bowrope it will be 10mm as there is no 9.5mm Must be 9mm then, as a couple of mm smaller the whats on the 8274 !! was bought a few years back for the [wisper] Huskey[/wisper] Will check it some time,, Maybe some deals at Sodbury next week ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi DD, That looks like old 11mm to me! You may have got 11mm or 12mm from me that has over the years expanded some what to your micrometer reading of 13.9mm. I have seen 11mm expand to over 14mm after a couple of years. I can assure YOU that I have never supplied a fully spliced 14mm line for a vehicle mounted winch. You would only get about 65ft on any of the winches that usually take 100ft x 8mm steel. Even on an 8274 you would be hard pressed to fit 100ft! Finally, why on earth would you want to fit a line with a nominal breaking strain of 37,900lbs (17,200kgs). Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Andy, I think the point of fitting line with a higher breaking strength than required is that even though you may never be able to break a new cable in a straight line pull, it still has some reserve capacity as it starts to get a bit frayed. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi Si, I agree, the reason ther winch challenge boys use the 11mm is that it has a higher resistance to shock loads and abrasion damage, it will take more punishment prior to breaking. There are very few winches on the scene as yet with more than a straight pull of about 5 tons, first layer, so the 11mm with a 10.5 ton NBS is well over specified for the job. Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Having seen my fair share of Richard Heads breaking winch ropes........ I feel i must interject....... Most, if not all failure to due driver error or lack of cable maintance...... Most cables i have seen snapped have been caused by people how are relucant to give the terrian the proper attention it desveres. Dirty Diesel, Again you speak of ropes being broken by amazing winches..... ( We all know to who you refer) But ask your self this..... What the F8ck was he doing putting that much load on his vehicle and equipment..??????? If the rolling resistance is that great, STOP! Rerig and get it right...... There is almost no excuse for breaking ropes of that diameter, it's just poor judgment and lack of skill...... Pure and simple... Breaking ropes should be a moment of reflection...... and asking questions like "What have i done wrong?" Not just "That Ropes Cr*p" or "The winch is to powerful" Again, i ask please tell me of one example of where you should load your winch to these levels...? I can not think of one But then perhaps i'm doing it wrong Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Well that makes me feel much better Jim, As i have never !(says he, with fingers crossed)! snaped a line, i thought it was me,, not tying hard enought !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hey Jim, I feel just awful, it is so unusual for me to agree with anybody on this planet, especially you!!! Your points are well made - the weakest section in any synthetic winch line should be the splice. It is very rare for any of the synthetics I have seen been broken to break at this point. The most usual reason for breakages is damage due to abrasion, when a line has been dragged across sharps, like rocks or damaged fairleads. If a line is in good condition it will normally be rated at twice the pulling power of the winch, should you double rig said line you put half the strain on it and twice the strain on the mounting points of the vehicle - I have observed a vehicle being pulled apart using this method - was quite fun to watch. All winch lines, including steel should be treated as a service part and replaced accordingly - if you want a rough guide about inspection go, have a look at my website. These inspection guidelines were put together in association with Puget, makers of Plasma but just as well apply to any syntheic. As a real rough guide I would replace a line after every 2 or 3 really demanding challenges, much the same as any of the driveline parts, costing a lot more by the way. Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 I mostly agree with jim. The times I have broken ropes, it has mostly been my own fault (often through being over tired or angry!). The rest have been through the rope just being worn out. What I was hoping for out of this is peoples experience of the life expectancy of different kinds of rope. Something which is a little over specified and more resistant to abrasion may make the difference between it breaking and not. One of the breakages at FSWC was down to a knot appearing in the rope as we took up the slack. The knot was out of sight over the top of a bank and the rope did not appear to be generally over-stressed - it just snapped! Perhaps I should have phrased the original question as "who has the oldest rope?" My very oldest rope, which was one of the original White BowRopes - is the only one still remaining. More recent Blue BowRope and Grey Marlow Dynaline are now in the bin! I cannot say with certainty that they were all abused to the same degree but I wondered what other peoples experience was. From that, we could draw more useful conclusions than you can from the breaking strain of new ropes. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Sorry Simon Did not realise what you wanted....... In that case...... I remove my ropes after each event clean them, remove the splice and revrese them EG: the bit at the bottom of the drum now becomes the hook end. I do this process 4 times (Or less if the ropes damaged) Then change the rope. So effectively i get 4 events (If i'm lucky) from one cable. This is my personal choice and i'm just superstitious about it these things... As for the best cable or line........ You get what you pay for. Andy knows which i use, and it's brilliant, but almost impossible to buy... So i'm changing to plasma in the near future (Andy start splicing ) People complain about synthectics......But..... Before these ropes, we ran steel and i used to break, wrek or ruin at least two cables an event..... Not break them, just get kinks or flat spots thus rendering the cable useless. We worked it out briefly and reckoned that the cost of using rope to cable is not such a big difference as you think, when you take this in to account. I don't work for Andy Just my limited humble opinion...... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Your use of them is a bit more 'extreme' than me and many others using the stuff. I always wash the rope. Didn't consider reversing it though. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Si, I have seen several examples of knots appearing in lines - this reduces the NBS by about 60%. There is only one solution - cut the sucker out and do a mid-length splice - this will be good for about 95%+ of the original NBS. Easy to do as long as the line is relatively new because the older it gets the more difficult it is to splice. I am happy to repair any lines foc if you pay the carriage both ways. I will be honest with you and if the line is uneconomical to repair I will return it at my expense. Regards, Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I have old rope - tons of the stuff!! When I supply lines for evaluation/sponsorship I always ask that they be returned for testing & evaluation when it looks like they are nearing the end of their life. It is surprising just how much strength remains in a bit of old rope! I have heavily used ropes as old as 5 years that are still being used by members of my local off-road club. They are given without guarentee or certificates but are in my opinion still up to the job! Andy Thomlinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 But then perhaps i'm doing it wrong Yeah, what do you know anyway ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Amsteel blue from rockstomper I've had fitted for approx 3years maybe getting on for 4 and a bit. (maybe time to put the new one on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 what about masterpull XD? http://www.masterpull.com/item.cfm?itemid=20017 check www.dgtuning.com who is selling them. Hendrik Yes Hendrik, That's what I use, After snapping about a dozzen of other synthetic ropes from different suppliers, all after a couple of events and when looking tatty (which happens very quickly with all normal type ropes) Said that I would try this one and if that snapped then go back to steel! Been on there for 1 year now and only snapped recently when it got pulled against a sharp metal edge (no suprise there) Still not frayed, never needed to clean it and will still take a full 6 ton pull from my Hydraulic winch! Am Keeping this!!!! Cost? Twice as much as normal plasma types etc but has lasted me 4 times as long!!! Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterSplicer Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 The best synthetic rope on the market today is the one of Masterpull. They cal it there superline and that's what it is. There is no other rope what getting close to there breaking strenght of there ropes. The one Lara is refering to is even there "old" line,what has a braided cover arround it. Funny thing here is that they claim is that it's there in the house made rope and that isn't really the thruth. This is a 100% European made rope. The rope comes from Island where it is bin used on fisher trawlers al over the world. It's the same rope where Gigglepin is refering to. The Masterpull rope is extremly expensiv specially when you buy the one with braided cover arround it. The braided cover by it self is extremly strong. Thought the breaking strenght of that cover is by it self already something like 2200 kg. There advert in the past was that the ropes with the braided cover was even made stronger because of that fact. But that wasn't thrue eather as during test it was very clear that the rope and the inner fibres whare acting differently from each other. So you can't count the braided cover and the ropes own fibres together. Another negativ point here is that the rope with the braided cover can't be spliced. Some ropes with braided cover you stil can splice as a normal rope without braided cover but these masterpull ropes you can't. The braided cover is so dense that you can't put even a nail into it. Great advantage of the braided cover is that it keeps out mud sand stones etc till the cover brakes. Then it wil be a big mud trap. The debree gets into the rope and can't get out anymore. I have used these sorts of lines many times and i know , i think where i am talking about. Because of the fact that you can't splice these braided ropes Masterpull decided to made there thimble/hook connection by a knot. This is not a simple knot. The way the knot is made it's never wil get loose but wil get tighter with every more kg what goes into the knot. we have called them killer knots because they wil cut thrue the line as they where sharp as a knive. These knots wil kill the line they reduce the strenght of the line by 50-60%. In my time as being officially involved in the making/testing from al kind of hoisting/lifting/winching applications i have more then once contacted them that they sold a very dangerous solution to the people. but they revused to change there not as there is no other way to connect the thimble to these lines. I have used the same line on my own hydr.winch as Lara does and it never broke because of the knot. But in my testing facility it did and i can assure you that these machines are very accurat. The only explanation what i could come up with is the fact that during hard winching you never came close to the strenght where the knot would do it's work. To proof my theorie it did test in the real. I recorded al the real pulling strenghts of the hydr.winch on every layer and with a reading of the hydr.pressures in the systems. Soon as i had this data i could use it in the field. And even you are really stuck up to the doors i never got over the 3500 kg pulling power from the winch to free my self. I could do the same tests again with a calibrated loadcell to give even more proof. But stay away from a knot in the rope specially when it's a sort of hangman knot construction. The other thing i would like to correct is that somebody here in the topic said that dyneema and plasma are the same. They are not. The early dyneema ropes where sometimes breaking without real reason. The only reason why these ropes broke was the fact that they sold a dyneema rope from a total different sort. Still dyneema but not as strong as the SK-75 fibre. So in these days the dyneema rope got maybe a bad name because of that fact. The reason why the dyneema rope of Masterpull is so much stronger as the rest is lying in the fact that it's a pre-stretched rope. It starts it's live as a thicker rope but by heathing it up and then in the same time stretching it you get an incredible strong product. The end result is sold as DUX rope. There 11 mm is doing 18000 kg and there 9 mm is doing 12000. During my own tests with the rope i had even higher breaking rates when the rope was spliced as the factory. It al depends on how wel you make the splice. But in the reall live it's not that important as there is no winch out there what can break it. But when it's comes to determine the real breaking strenght then these details are very important. The reall rope killers are the fair leads used these days. Specially on challenge cars where very often the car has to pulled arround what means the ropes makes a 90 degree angle in the corner of the fairlead. Here the inner live of the fibres get killed. In fact the structure of the fibres in this area gets completly pulverised. You can't see nothing on the outside of the rope it al happens in the rope it self. That's why sometimes ropes seems to break without touching nothing on a straight pul. These ropes are sometimes allready very badly damaged in the core allready. When you would like to optimize the fairlead the diameter has to go up with big numbers and that's not really an option. Turning the rope around helps here. Drum side wil be hook side and the other way arround. But as stated before somwhere in this tropic it's very difficult to buy it here in Europe. Besides US there are not really many people who sell it. And the rope factory self is absolute not interested in selling a few 100 meters of it. They only selling it in 10000 of meters or even more. So the next best rope is in my opinion the one from Mr.Andy T. The Plasma rope. It's build with very high standards and it's a first class rope. But a completly different one from the the a have discribe here above. Hope that this wil give some serious information to the topic. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 its also sold under the name Dux Diamond - I hated it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Rob, You should write a book....... Intersperse every few pages with some porn to keep the mind active and you'll have a best seller... Speak soon Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Jim, if Rob and Butplug got together and wrote a book...................... Too scarey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hi Rob, My brain hurts! A lot!! It must be the fact that you are forcing it round tight corners. Going into a quiet darkened room for a lie down now! Thanks for the vote of confidence in Plasma. No, you have not upset me big guy - I just like having fun with these forums. Best wishes, Andy Thomlinson. www.ruftraks.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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