o_teunico Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 This idea has been in my mind for a wile, and now that my bro has sold the Disco´s modulars and has repaired a chrome ball in one of the 109s, I have had the oportunity to see if this will work. The idea is simple: bolt a reversed Series steering arm to the upper railko bush pin in a coiler axle. It´s so simple and cheap that there must be some problems for not seeing this mod in lifted vehicles. Maybe clearence with panhard or wheel/tyre? Wrong Ackerman? As you see, some grinding will be needed for sitting flat the two parts Brake pipes will also need relocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Doesn't look great at the moment and you are only using two out of the four bolts however the outcome could be very useful for my hybrid Series / RRC axles. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Two bolts just for the photo. Four longer bolts making a "sandwich" will be used in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Are you doing a tie rod or a steering rod? The steering rod does not matter much as it is above the axle bottom anyway. A tie rod would have reverse Ackerman, but that may be a good thing off road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Could you have found some cleaner steering arms? You do realize; 1) series steering arms have removable pins so you can simply press the pin out of the bottom and back in the bottom 2) coiler axles only have 2 top swivel pin bolts and there is very little swivel to d&t for the extra bolts and the swivel pin is much smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The 2 upper bolts simply aren't enough to cope with the steering loads, and mounting the series steering arm to the coiler swivel via 2 diagonal bolt holes would completely screw up Ackerman angles. I doubt that fabricating steering arms would be legal in Spain, but you would really need to fabricate something resembling a Y shaped steering arm that picked up both the top and bottom swivel pin bolts and even the steering lock stop bolts for complete safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 If two bolts are not enough...lets make what Santana did: longer axle tubes with Series swivels. Track bar is not below the diffs nose (very exposed) and we will have four bolts for the steering arm. Santana swivels can be purchased already converted for disc brakes. Will series swivels accept coiler stub axles and AEU2522 CVs? Will visit bro at lunchtime and take a pic to the Series V front axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 You do realize; 1) series steering arms have removable pins so you can simply press the pin out of the bottom and back in the bottom 2) coiler axles only have 2 top swivel pin bolts and there is very little swivel to d&t for the extra bolts and the swivel pin is much smaller. ^^^ this ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If two bolts are not enough...lets make what Santana did: longer axle tubes with Series swivels. Track bar is not below the diffs nose (very exposed) and we will have four bolts for the steering arm. Santana swivels can be purchased already converted for disc brakes. Will series swivels accept coiler stub axles and AEU2522 CVs? Will visit bro at lunchtime and take a pic to the Series V front axle. Don't know if it's the same with Santana swivels, but series swivels have very limited steering lock.Although they are larger, Series swivel balls are not as strong as coiler balls, and have been known to split just outboard of the bolt flange.I made weld in sleeves for the balls on WildFing. The Stage One swivel balls that were fitted with cv joints were machined to space the swivel bearings further apart to clear the Cv, but I'm not certain it is actually necessary, but I use stage one balls anyway, so never tried fitting a Rover cv into a regular series ball. Toyota CV's fit ok though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) If you don't have sufficient strength in the top bolts then the other way is to bolt from either the bottom bolts to top bolts with some plate type thing and connect the TRE there, or to bolt from bottom TRE mount up to the new plate on the top bolts. This could work with LHD and RHD swivles used together but will have reverse Ackerman angle, some say this is better though? There are some good pictures on other sites but choose a good one not one of the US redneck solutions! Marc. Edited February 7, 2014 by missingsid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 So looking the web, Pirate 4x4 had a couple of threads back in 2011 with a company planning to make a bolt on kit. Guess what 2014 there web site does not mention it so it went nowhere. Also this home made: New top arm bolts to std two swivle bolts plus the welded box for more strength. Also found this from our very on forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Frankly, if you want hi-steer axles on a LR, you may as well fit some axles that have a bolt-on kit designed to create high-steer, like Toyota or something yank. Probably easier in the long run, and the bonus you get is stronger axles to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 just make a new casting for the knuckle with a steering arm, this is wat the yanks do for their dana 40 and 60 axles. I am sure there is a market for these. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 just make a new casting for the knuckle with a steering arm, this is wat the yanks do for their dana 40 and 60 axles. I am sure there is a market for these. Daan I agree but it would depend on there being a better market in the UK then was found in the US as they could not make the business case work from what I read. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 As Bill said, I don´t think that fabricating steering arms will be legal in Spain. Dirtydiesel, I have cleaned the parts for you More progress, now working with Series swivels. First, a little grinding Now both parts sit flush. I preffer this option, because if the pin is simply removed and reversed, the side bolted to swivel will need machining for beeing flat (I don´t have acces to a mill) and it has less surface. No clearance problems with the series 5.5 rim and drum brake. The brake disk version has the caliper aft, so the arm located at front shouldn´t cause problems. SOA mock-up. Following the ideas of other thread, shackles are at front. Leafs in picture are the long ones from the rear axle of a six cylinder 109 (paras). Track bar to leaf clearance is grater than in the stock setup. Series V stock axle and suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You want to go spring over? Better ditch those narrow series axles and get some patrol/LC axles which are a lot wider. You'll need it for stability as it is going to be tall. No way I would bother with any lr axle either in that case. I went with lc80 axles with aftermarket high steer setup. Spendy but works fantastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 OK so the target is to get high steer to enable SOA? The disc/coiler hib was an add on? This still looks hooky but at least you cn use all four bolts and a std arm. With SOA this must put the TRE back to around the std position and orientation? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You want to go spring over? Better ditch those narrow series axles and get some patrol/LC axles which are a lot wider. You'll need it for stability as it is going to be tall. No way I would bother with any lr axle either in that case. I went with lc80 axles with aftermarket high steer setup. Spendy but works fantastically. If you take a closer look at the photo of the series V, it appears to have wide axles like a coiler but with series swivels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hmmmm indeed looks like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hmmmm indeed looks like it. May be mistaken but the throat of the swivel ball appears a bit smaller than on regular series balls. May be to improve steering lock ? probably has disc brakes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 No idea.. I'm not that familiar with LR axles . Cant see it helping with steering lock, well it might but i reckon the oil seal wont touch the surface of the swivel anymore creating a new problem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 No idea.. I'm not that familiar with LR axles . Cant see it helping with steering lock, well it might but i reckon the oil seal wont touch the surface of the swivel anymore creating a new problem.. If the radius of the ball was continued down to the smaller diameter throat , the oil seal will still work on the sharper steering angle as it does on Coilers and Toyota's etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yes you're right, didnt think of that... wouldnt that result in too little wall thickness? You mentioned something earlier on, or in another thread, that even in stock form they can split or crack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yes you're right, didnt think of that... wouldnt that result in too little wall thickness? You mentioned something earlier on, or in another thread, that even in stock form they can split or crack? Yes, The original series swivels split near the bolt flange mainly on forward controls and some hard worked 1 tonners with 9.00x 16 tyre on their wider offset rims. The reason for that is the brilliant designers fitted a 3" diameter 30,000lb capacity bearing to support a 4lb halfshaft, which left the wall thickness of the swivel ball throat too thin. Coilers support the halfshaft via a bronze bush in the stub axle instead, so the wall thickness of the swivel ball throat is substantial despite its smaller diameter. I would hazard a guess that Santana redesigned their series V balls to have serious wall thickness and a smaller bore to accept a bronze bush to support the halfshaft. I think LandRover UK should have imported all their design engineers from Spain ! Santana was building the type of Landrovers that the rest of the world markets were begging for during the Series era ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_teunico Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yep, series V axle is nearly 200mm wider and has discs at front. I really never realized that about the throat...will measure it next day. How the hell is a Toyota CV matched to LR shafts/flange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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