missingsid Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 hi ,saying hello and to say milli in classic land rover mag is mine ,,,the steering mod took some thought but turned out simple really ,, she has done 300 miles with no faults ,,if this mod is of use to anyone and you require more piccys, help or discussion just ask on here or the lightweight forum or you are more than welcome to come and have a butchers at it ,,, and a brew ,,,regards vinny Do you have any pics of the bottom of the box to see how it was made to fit in the relay tube? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatso Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 hi ,pic 3 on the link is the best i have as yet ,,,will try and get one with the drop arm off when i get a mo ,,regards vinny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Do you have any pics of the bottom of the box to see how it was made to fit in the relay tube? Cheers. The bottom end of the box protrudes from the chassis, just like the relay normally does. The difference here is that the PAS box has a flat between where the bolt lugs were, (where it would sit against the chassis if mounted externally. Vinny has used a square of sheet steel the thickness of the box protrusion with a hole that precisely matches the flatted circle of the box, like a "D", and bolted that plate to the chassis using the bolt holes used for the relay retaining collar. If you can get a precise fit, I can't see it being much weaker than using all four lugs, especially if you drill out and retap the bolt holes a little bigger and use shouldered bolts (ie. unthreaded for the thickness of the plate). My concerns would also be in making sure the drop arm was safe, but there are companies at Luton airport that do nd testing for components like this. I'd prefer the arm to have a swan-neck, not a single bend, to avoid TRE damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Just something worth considering for the more "hardcore" offroaders. (If there even are any left of those hardcore leafers) Afernoon Soren. Still winch challenging mine on it's leaf springs. Can't access the Lightweight page from this PC but I'll have a look see later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impressionist Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Really nice to see a new take on the power steering fitment which doesn't involve moving the front crossmember - you have to hand it to the guy for thinking that one through! Thanks Snagger for following it up. I'd just need to find a drop arm which is the right length - I'm sure the ALRC regs still don't permit cut & welded steering parts. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Really nice to see a new take on the power steering fitment which doesn't involve moving the front crossmember - you have to hand it to the guy for thinking that one through! Thanks Snagger for following it up. I'd just need to find a drop arm which is the right length - I'm sure the ALRC regs still don't permit cut & welded steering parts. Cheers It's not just the ALRC. D2 arm is different again, it has a banana bend in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I have read somewhere on a forum that welded steering parts are not permitted for road use either in the UK, but the Series vehicle steering columns are made of three sections welded together - the splines top, the main shaft and the worm gear in the box. I'm sure they're not unique, either, so the rule may have been misquoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I would imagine that the rule says that welded parts by the manufacturer is ok, just not by a vehicle modifyer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I think, as is the case with most UK rules, if it isn't mainstream, then the onus is on you to prove it's okay. If you weld it, and it's steering, you need a certificate from a competent person saying it's ok. A manufacturer is considered competent, and probably has certificates of conformity for the vehicle as a whole, and so doesn't need to x ray stuff, etc. So, welding is ok, if you can show that it's up to snuff! Snaggers friends in Luton, would be the people to get in touch with if you are modifying steering stuff by welding/heat treatment. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The bottom end of the box protrudes from the chassis, just like the relay normally does. The difference here is that the PAS box has a flat between where the bolt lugs were, (where it would sit against the chassis if mounted externally. Vinny has used a square of sheet steel the thickness of the box protrusion with a hole that precisely matches the flatted circle of the box, like a "D", and bolted that plate to the chassis using the bolt holes used for the relay retaining collar. If you can get a precise fit, I can't see it being much weaker than using all four lugs, especially if you drill out and retap the bolt holes a little bigger and use shouldered bolts (ie. unthreaded for the thickness of the plate). My concerns would also be in making sure the drop arm was safe, but there are companies at Luton airport that do nd testing for components like this. I'd prefer the arm to have a swan-neck, not a single bend, to avoid TRE damage. Okay that was clever! If one then were to make that "D" on a lathe and mill out of say cast or solid it would be just at least as strong against the twisting forces. However might develop some slack if not also located by bolts, but not dangerous in any way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The bottom end of the box protrudes from the chassis, just like the relay normally does. The difference here is that the PAS box has a flat between where the bolt lugs were, (where it would sit against the chassis if mounted externally. Vinny has used a square of sheet steel the thickness of the box protrusion with a hole that precisely matches the flatted circle of the box, like a "D", and bolted that plate to the chassis using the bolt holes used for the relay retaining collar. If you can get a precise fit, I can't see it being much weaker than using all four lugs, especially if you drill out and retap the bolt holes a little bigger and use shouldered bolts (ie. unthreaded for the thickness of the plate). My concerns would also be in making sure the drop arm was safe, but there are companies at Luton airport that do nd testing for components like this. I'd prefer the arm to have a swan-neck, not a single bend, to avoid TRE damage. Thanks,So the bottom set of mounting flanges are machined/cut off or at least reduced until they fit the diameter of the relay housing. If you were concerned about the twisting action acting on a flat edge of the plate (thought it is quite thick) you could add a verticle plate inside the realay housing from the bottom plate. This conversion is very neat and professional looking, with a swan neck drop arm this would look better than mine or any other add on conversion really. Sorry this is not a critisism of the thread or anyones work just a fact of life about adding PAS to a Series in that it tends to look like exactly what it is. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think, as is the case with most UK rules, if it isn't mainstream, then the onus is on you to prove it's okay. If you weld it, and it's steering, you need a certificate from a competent person saying it's ok. A manufacturer is considered competent, and probably has certificates of conformity for the vehicle as a whole, and so doesn't need to x ray stuff, etc. So, welding is ok, if you can show that it's up to snuff! Snaggers friends in Luton, would be the people to get in touch with if you are modifying steering stuff by welding/heat treatment. G. like you say, the manufacturer puts hours into stuff like this, i know from experience working in both the design, and development areas. obviously the component is designed, the correct grade of material, structure and applications in mind to name but a few factors, the component will then be put through a DFMEA process and then (in todays age) put through an FEA on the CAD system. the drawing will specify the relevant information on workmanship, quality and tolerances etc, when recieved as a prototype part it will then be put through a Fit and Function, most likely taken to MIRA and put well through its paces over and over again. often for days, or weeks on end, in all conditions that should ever be accounted for, finally, the component will be inspected for any signs of fatigue or faliure, and a full report written up on the changes made. whereas we just whack something together, bash it a few times and say, yeah thats plenty strong enough i could imagine that is probably why manufacturers are "aloud" to do stuff like welded steering components, and we arent. P.S. that is with a plant machinery company. imagine how much testing BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes etc do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobotMan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 We have a lab full of test rigs which run for days fatigue testing suspension components as well as all the computer simulated testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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