Bull Bar Cowboy Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 IanGo on make the effort - you'll enjoy Bunny Lane Andy Yes Andy I'll try and make the effort…… At the moment it’s looking good………. but I have lots of holiday to use up this year so it will depend upon what SWMBO lets me in for books up ……… but Nov is going to be better than Dec I suppose I had better join this club whatever it is …….. is that the one with the dodgy vice chairman ………if it is, then I want a discount Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Yes Andy I'll try and make the effort…… At the moment it’s looking good………. but I have lots of holiday to use up this year so it will depend upon what SWMBO lets me in for books up ……… but Nov is going to be better than Dec I suppose I had better join this club whatever it is …….. is that the one with the dodgy vice chairman ………if it is, then I want a discount Ian Most of the commitee are a bit on the Dodgy side to be honest, what with Dan and Andy, JU to name but a few... Fao b101uk I am afraid you have been misinformed by your local HSE. Obviously you have HSE approved Risk Management Training for winching and within that training you are given the choice to Risk Assess you winch rope/wire. This will then be within the Method Statement for the winchin opperation you are performing. If you have decided that the Risk potential is too high with synthetic line then you don't use it. However inabout 80 percent of Arbor/Sylvicultural operations that involve winching the use of the correct synthetic line and it's asscociated equipement actually score a lower Risk score than wire rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 As I am most likely down the day before, can we do a practice run with my EP9 just so I can see how little current it draws... my EP9 will be there mined might need more dead weight as my tomcat has a habit of sliding something to do with lack of weight so i'm told don't know what they mean mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Mike - no additional weight needed just get MarshalLard to sit in it, no ones gonna shift it then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Roll Call Time ? Who and What is going to have a go ? Andy M (Moglite) H14W mech PTO Superwinch Nigel (HFH) IR Series 14T Industrial PTO Driven / Superwinch H14W HyBrid System Ian G (BBC) PTO Driven Milemarker Who else and what ? Is it me or have the "Electric wins everytime" Boys either not posted up / having to wash their hair this date ? ??? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Still running wire on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Oooooooooooh Is that an "Oooo I'd love to come......BUT ...... " Type Excuse too Trev ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Wouldn't mind. Still got my Shire membership if someone's got some spare plasma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I have a spare 80 ft of 12mm, seriously ............... just unsure as to fixing, ?? mine uses a carefully crimped 8mm battery termainal mullered 8mm battery terminal any good ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 That'll do nicely I'm sure we can hold it on with a bit of duct tape and a few wraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Yeah, The strain on it will be minimal Consider it a 'loan' See you there REALLY looking forward to this, should be a rweally fun day and a F good laugh too Nige Andy M (Moglite) H14W mech PTO Superwinch Nigel (HFH) IR Series 14T Industrial PTO Driven / Superwinch H14W HyBrid System Ian G (BBC) PTO Driven Milemarker Trev (LR90) 8274 + HFH "Lovingly pre-used" 12mm Plasma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b101uk Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 “But you cannot be 100% on the quality and well being of the wire rope on each winch tested and not everbody is gonna have a valid test cert for their wire.” You cannot be 100% on the quality and well being of the synthetic rope on each winch tested, a valid test cert is irrelevant on the wire or synthetic rope, as the installation on the winch won’t have been tested as the test cert only applies to the supplied rope and fittings and not the complete system as installed my winch has a S.W.L as per its instillation and valid test cert for the complete system the joys of an fairey 525 As I don’t employ people and own all my own equipment there is no specific resin for me to have had “Risk Management Training for winching“ though I am conversant in most aspects of HSE requirements with regards to winching and lifting in both forestry and quarrying, including “Extraction by forwarder” “Extraction by skidder” “Tractor units in tree work” “Use of winches in the directional felling and takedown” “Winching operations in forestry” “Extraction by cable crane” as well as I fabricate and made quite a lot of lifting and pulling equipment in the past and have had it certified by competent persons. As you have probably guessed I occupied the ~20% of work that “synthetic line” is not used as it has to higher Risk potential and to short a life span, in 21 years I have never broken a wire rope using winches from hand powered monkeys & Tirfor up to 125t on the back of dozers operating in about the most demanding and dangerous aspects of winching and as such I am fully conversant with the calculation of MA and forces etc associated with there use and or equipment selection etc, this is why I know high grade wire ropes given in my prior post/s are stronger and infinitely more durable than synthetic rope based on personal experience and that of my pears. However if you were to intuprate “However inabout 80 percent of Arbour operations” correctly you would see that is inclusive of climbing operations witch is 99% synthetic or natural ropes or in relation to strops is a bulk of the use, the reminder is skidders etc and Tirfor hand winch etc as listed above non of witch use synthetic rope as it is not suitable or fit for the purpose. It is true that synthetic is “lower Risk score” but only when it goes wrong threw the ineptitude of the operator/s and the rope snaps, at all other times high grade wire is safer, no ifs or buts as it is physically more resilient to accidental damage witch typically happens when things go wrong, of cause if you wish to compare high grade synthetic rope to low grade wire like most people do in there ignorance then that if fine, but a more fair comparison is agenced medium to high grade wire ropes Of cause if you’re confident in your synthetic rope then fine, but it’s like the old saying “There is fishing tackle for catching fishermen and fishing tackle for catching fish” b101uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I've used both Wire and plasma in "Anger" and seen both break The wire wrapped itslef into a tree, and I couldn't get it out had to remove it from the drum The plasma made everyone around it jump and noone hurt, and even if it had touched them wire would have removed a limb, plasma would have given nasty bruise. Consider what this meet is going to be doing (have never stalled my winch - but this event is designed to do so to many winches) and I'm with Andy, plasma, and hide behind things still...the plasma shoved a dent in my rear door, and it was brand new 11mm Plasma 12 Wires finem, but no thanks on this event ! Think about it, and you'll see the logic ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 “But you cannot be 100% on the quality and well being of the wire rope on each winch tested and not everbody is gonna have a valid test cert for their wire.”You cannot be 100% on the quality and well being of the synthetic rope on each winch tested, a valid test cert is irrelevant on the wire or synthetic rope, as the installation on the winch won’t have been tested as the test cert only applies to the supplied rope and fittings and not the complete system as installed my winch has a S.W.L as per its instillation and valid test cert for the complete system the joys of an fairey 525 As I don’t employ people and own all my own equipment there is no specific resin for me to have had “Risk Management Training for winching“ though I am conversant in most aspects of HSE requirements with regards to winching and lifting in both forestry and quarrying, including “Extraction by forwarder” “Extraction by skidder” “Tractor units in tree work” “Use of winches in the directional felling and takedown” “Winching operations in forestry” “Extraction by cable crane” as well as I fabricate and made quite a lot of lifting and pulling equipment in the past and have had it certified by competent persons. As you have probably guessed I occupied the ~20% of work that “synthetic line” is not used as it has to higher Risk potential and to short a life span, in 21 years I have never broken a wire rope using winches from hand powered monkeys & Tirfor up to 125t on the back of dozers operating in about the most demanding and dangerous aspects of winching and as such I am fully conversant with the calculation of MA and forces etc associated with there use and or equipment selection etc, this is why I know high grade wire ropes given in my prior post/s are stronger and infinitely more durable than synthetic rope based on personal experience and that of my pears. However if you were to intuprate “However inabout 80 percent of Arbour operations” correctly you would see that is inclusive of climbing operations witch is 99% synthetic or natural ropes or in relation to strops is a bulk of the use, the reminder is skidders etc and Tirfor hand winch etc as listed above non of witch use synthetic rope as it is not suitable or fit for the purpose. It is true that synthetic is “lower Risk score” but only when it goes wrong threw the ineptitude of the operator/s and the rope snaps, at all other times high grade wire is safer, no ifs or buts as it is physically more resilient to accidental damage witch typically happens when things go wrong, of cause if you wish to compare high grade synthetic rope to low grade wire like most people do in there ignorance then that if fine, but a more fair comparison is agenced medium to high grade wire ropes Of cause if you’re confident in your synthetic rope then fine, but it’s like the old saying “There is fishing tackle for catching fishermen and fishing tackle for catching fish” b101uk Couple of points: To use a winch on land not belonging to you, you need the correct form of certificate for the operation of that winch/winching. Public liability comes before employees liability in law. There was a test case covering this in Wales a few years back - Fountain IIRC I am not talking about Arbor climbing ops here - allow for the fact that my climbing tickets, including 'rescue' and 'close proximity' have now run out . I am talking winch use in Arbor HSE directives are no longer written in Black and White, they come in shades of grey, you have interpreted the 'law' as you see it and as it was, I am merely correcting the misinterpretation as I have been trained and qualified to interpret it... Telle est la vie et la vie est telle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Nige - you missed me out............ bloody v8 owners........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Andy, Re the cheesy drawing ? Snatch block back to the LR ? That will cuase bigger probs on the cell block ? Think you'll need single line lowest coil of plasma on the drum +6+ coils left on ? Or have I misunderstood the drawing? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Roll Call Time ? Andy M (Moglite) - err not quite - haven't finished the front winch yet, I could use the rear Husky I suppose, if everyone is prepare to camp over for the weekend Nigel (HFH) IR Series 14T Industrial PTO Driven / Superwinch H14W HyBrid System Ian G (BBC) PTO Driven Milemarker Jez (DollyTheLW) Milemarker type R Trev90 8274 Mark 8074 with 4.6 motor MikeTomCat Superwinch EP9 I notice there is a distinct lack of twin-motor 8274's, having babies, manicure booked, having hi-lights retouched - I've heard 'em all now As for the wire vs "plasma" debate. All valid points, I've yet to see a 50 tonne crane on synthetic. However not all LR owners are so methodical with their use of wire ropes. From my perspective, synthetic breaks, you'd be unlucky to get a bruise, with steel, you could loose your head. If you excuse the pun, thats a no-brainer <groan> Still need PTO and more electric winches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Oh Jez, Are you sure you can stand the embarassment with the rest of us with your silly oil powered winch ? Aren't you going to burn the midnight oil (take it from the winch) and fit a proper leccy one ? FFS Get a grip on reality man Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 dont start on me stumpy - Ive had enough.... just wait Ive been busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 .... just wait Ive been busy Choc Hob Nob and Choc Bourbon hybrid powered Winch ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 better than that Nige Ive seen the light Ive gone Lektrickery its the way forward!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Andy M (Moglite) - Still need PTO and more electric winches. As long as there is no ignition soaking deep water, or carburator (carburators, what are those?) disturbing 50 degree angles involved, and If I threw my 4spd, 100% duty cycle, up to 160 ft per min line speed (at 5000 engine rpm!) PTO with a spool of new plasma into the fray all you other guys might as well stay home. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 As long as there is no ignition soaking deep water, or carburator (carburators, what are those?) disturbing 50 degree angles involved, and If I threw my 4spd, 100% duty cycle, up to 160 ft per min line speed (at 5000 engine rpm!) PTO with a spool of new plasma into the fray all you other guys might as well stay home.Bill. Pack yer bourbons and scotch leave now, and you'll just about make it here for the 19th However, it just might be raining here in the UK Jez, That looks like a combo of 'road kill' 'toys R us' and 'Hammeriate Blue' - mixed to make something terrifying Please continue Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 will your vehicel ever be ready will? Oh yes Jez....absolutely. Soon very soon Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Oh yes Jez....absolutely.Soon very soon Nige Nige, remind me, how long did it take you to build my ground anchor??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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