thingybox Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Morning... Just a quick question... I've just bought a Defender 110 CSW 300tdi and I want to take it for MOT. However, the timing belt cover and viscous fan are missing... Would it be OK to drive 5 miles to the test centre and back? The belt isn't going to slip off or anything like that? Thank you in advance, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I wouldn't advise it, it won't slip off but it is there to protect it Cancel the MOT, put it back together then re-book the MOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffernutter Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I was going to say that, but then some "hot rods" have exposed timing belts as a feature. It is a risk, possibly a small risk, but still a risk all the same. If it were me, I'd probably risk it but it is your call and if anything goes wrong I'm not liable :-) Cheers Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Keep the testers on your good side, seeing a incomplete engine is never going to win any prizes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 surely without the cover there's no belt running the water pump? and also, without the viscous fan theres a good chance it will overheat during the MOT, most testers leave the engine idling for long periods to make sure its warm for the emissions test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 surely without the cover there's no belt running the water pump? ...... .... or alternator and power steering pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Bob....what have you bought??!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingybox Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Have you ever had the feeling you've bitten off more that you can chew? Firstly, let me explain what I do for a living... I work for a company called Stage Truck as a LGV CE Driver (HGV Class One in old money or Rock n' Roll Tour Driver to impress the girls!). We transport sound, lighting, staging, wardrobe, catering and so on for the music tours. A tour can last anything up to three months, which means I can be away for anything up to three months; since 6th January this year I've been home for only 12 days. And we go everywhere, providing there's a ferry or a bridge... Europe, Scandinavia, Russia, Turkey, Israel, North Africa and everywhere in between! I've recently bought, via eBay, a 1995 Land Rover Defender 110 CSW with only 78,500 miles on the clock for £2,750. The advert said the vehicle was 90% finished, all it needed was a new interior. The auction was running whilst I was out on the Robbie Williams Swings Both Ways European tour so I had no way in which to view the vehicle beforehand. I called the guy who had listed the Defender and asked him, quite specifically, what will it fail an MOT on? Not, will it pass an MOT? What will it fail on? The guy started off with the usual sucking of air between his teeth which, to me, instantly means he going to give me some flannel. He said "...nothing, it just needs a new interior". Due to being away so much you have to take the opportunities/risks as they arise because when you're home there nothing seems to be available. The guy runs a business selling 4x4s so I took him at his word because, at the end of the day, his reputation is on the line (he got negative feedback for his trouble). Anyway, It didn't matter to me what was wrong with it. I was buying it for the engine, gearbox, transfer box, axles, front bulkhead and rear crossmember. The idea was to transfer these components onto my 90 to upgrade it. I have a 1989 90, first registered in 1991 so it has an "H" prefix on the registration but "FA425XXX" as the VIN number. It has the 19J 2.5TD engine with drum brakes on the rear axle... Everything else was going to be put on eBay to recoup some of the money I'd spent. However, just before getting it I was attracted to some of the overland expeditions advertised in LRO magazine. The 90 isn't big enough and, after getting the 110, looking over it, it seemed a better prospect than the 90. Nevertheless it's appalling... When I get it to our yard I'll put it on the ramps and take photos underneath. It looks as though Stevie Wonder welded repair plates onto the chassis; the guy I bought it from sells 4x4s for a living, it beggars belief! He also resprayed it... It looks as though he's been off-roading in it, brought it back to his workshop and sprayed it without preparing or even washing the bodywork first. There are great swathes of flaking rust that have just been sprayed over! The 110 needs a new chassis. It was owned by a Scottish nobleman and I presume it was used by a gamekeeper or similar. It's probably spent most of it's life doing what it's designed for - crawling through long grass, bogs and marshes, hence it's so rough underneath. The rear crossmember has been replaced at some point but definitely not by the guy I bought it off as the welds are so neat they're almost a work of art! After all that I've decided to keep it and sell the 90. The 90 needs a new bulkhead, rear crossmember and an engine change, although there is nothing wrong with the engine; the 90 is currently showing 111,000 miles. The chassis is solid, apart from the rear crossmember. I replaced the gearbox two years ago with a reconditioned unit and it hasn't done more than 10,000 miles (LT77, suffix "H"). I also replaced the 1:6 ratio transfer box with a 1:4 ratio box with approximately 66,000 miles usage. The rest of the vehicle is completely original and hasn't been molested in any way. The idea is to take it for MOT to see what needs doing to it from a qualified perspective. The fitters are guys I've worked with before as they are ex-HGV fitters who now repair cars for a living. I'm also covered by my insurance to take the vehicle to have it tested rather than have someone transport it for inspection. Once it's had it's MOT it's going into storage. It gives me time to sell the 90 and purchase a brand new galvanised chassis from Marsland (I read the thread about the body off chassis change by "Western" with great interest...). A six bay workshop with a VOSA lane is currently being built at the yard and three of the fitters there originally did their apprenticeships with Land Rover so I can have their immediate help whilst I'm restoring the 110 in the old workshop. Back to the original question... The timing belt is present and in good condition, only the timing belt cover and fan are missing. So, there you have it... Sorry it took so long to explain it all! Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yes... But the power steering, alternator and water pump can't be turning can they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I understand all your purchase decisions, as it stands you will have no power steering, no alternator and most importantly no water pump. You are likely to ruin the engine with no water pump. Also as the timing cover is not on the engine (I assume you haven't got one) is the multi vee pulley fitted to the crank? If not you stand the risk of the timing belt crank pulley coming off. One more thing to bare in mind is that although it is legal to drive an untaxed and un MOT'd vehicle to a test station it should still be roadworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Think it's fair to say you cannot drive it. But on another note, even if you buy the car blind off ebay, you are still protected under trading rights. You can easily just throw it back at him due to it being mis-sold. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingybox Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Power steering is working as I drove it off the transporter, up the road and into my drive... Having never had a 300tdi before I assumed the timing belt cover was just that, a timing belt cover - no mechanical function whatsoever except to protect the timing belt from the ingress of debris. I've just had a look at it, the belt is tensioned and around all the wheels at the front of the engine, including the water pump and the alternator. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 erm any chance this "timing belt" is the serpentine belt??? Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Chuck a photo of the front of the engine up, it does sound like there is some confusion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The timing cover contains the fan pulley. Without the fan pulley, I'm not sure it would be possible to fit a serpentine belt and get the tensioner to work. Maybe it is possible, but it would be insane to have gone to the trouble to custom build it to work without the cover instead of simply putting the cover back on..... If an MOT station passed the car without a timing cover, they should probably lose their license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squaddiefox Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 No they wouldn't lose their licence. It would just be an advisory. Plus, If it has power steering etc I think it is the alternator/fan belt that you are seeing not the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingybox Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 It looks exactly like the photo above... I assumed it was the timing belt... If it's not the timing belt then what is it? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMB Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 It looks exactly like the photo above... I assumed it was the timing belt... If it's not the timing belt then what is it? Thanks, Bob That';s the serpentine belt - drives water pump, alternator, power steering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 That belt never has a cover. So you should be quite safe to go for an MOT, unless there are other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingybox Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Only the viscous fan is missing... I've had a really good look over the car, including underneath. There are some issues but nothing really major - hazards don't work but indicators and all the other lights do, there's a nasty squeal coming from the water pump (which I believe, from another thread on the forum, that it's the bearing), the body is rotted in several places, the steering box is leaking and that's about it! Furthermore, I wouldn't risk my licence taking something not roadworthy out on the road, after all my licence is my livelihood! Thank you for all your help, it is much appreciated! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What do I win? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What do I win? :-D A smug glow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingybox Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 A Crackerjack pencil and pen...? Took the 110 for MOT, it failed miserably... At least I know what needs to be done! It's now in storage until I can find somewhere to get it stripped and rebuilt. Thank you for all your help! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Good luck with the rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 keep it insured for fire & theft while the 110 is in storage, best wishes for the impending refurbishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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