Fatboy Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Evening all, I'm in the midst of tearing another 90 apart to fit a new chassis and possibly TD5 engine etc. Anyway, thats not the main reason for this post... I've been thinking about trying electrolysis for cleaning up the removable steel items like the A-frame, rear shock mounts, seatbelt reinforcing brackets, various mounts but I've never seen anyone mention it on here. Am I missing something about why it isn't suitable? I decided on a little trial - Got some soda ash, and dug out an old plain battery charger, dug a scrap brake disc out of the pile and set up the following: It all set off quite well, and the following day it looks like: Pleased with progress, i've not built a long plywood box and lined it with think polythene... This is for a complete axle - I'm thinking that by leaving the diff in, and the hub assemblies on, and blocking the breather, it won't get to the inside surfaces (although it seems to be line of sight). I'll move the sacrificial brake discs around after a couple of days to encourage cleaning on the blind sides... So, is there any reason why this shouldn't work? Look forward to some thoughts from the wiser ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige90 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 No reason at all. I've done the same with long items, although not axle length things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HampshireHog Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Cant wait to see the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The only thing that might be worth looking up is 'hydrogen embrittlement'. Some people claim it's a problem and others say it's a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Barry, I'd done a bit of reading on the www prior to trying this and indeed, there are lots of conflicting thoughts on Hydrogen embrittlement... A good article is here----> http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php It seems that embrittlement is more of a problem with high strength steels or components that are under high load. Embrittlement is reversible by either baking the component (I'll wait till the missus is out and pop the little brackets in the oven at 200C for a while) or simply by the passage of time. I don't think the axle cases / radius arms are high strength steel (happy to be corrected though) and as a precaution, when I strip the various pieces for overhaul after the electrolysis has taken place, I'll either bake the fasteners or replace them (I'm thinking calliper bolts etc). Actually, I think we may have a portable hardness tester at work, so I might take some readings before any attempts.. I wouldn't be tempted to try it on the half shafts or prop shafts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 never tried it but looks interesting:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9us16ZaZgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AakwLO0RqPc thought about building an ultrasonic cleaner (not sure if anyone uses a large one for anything more than cabs & spark plugs though (thinking gearbox / head / block size) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 A bit bandit but the Sunken Sidecar Of Doom videos on youtube show what can be achieved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Geezo... The SSOD setup looks "interesting" .. Not sure I'd let my dog walk through the solution thats just been dumped down the garden. First brackets came out of the bucket a couple of nights ago. The shiny surfaces were done with a flapper before I decided to use Electrolysis but the process has definitely removed all of the crusty stuff from the mounting - its particularly obvious in the recesses on the inside of the bolt holes (where the bushes go). I was sure I'd taken a general picture of these brackets beside the main A frame beams but obviously not as I can't find it... I'll get another later. I've re-arranged some stuff outside to make space for the "axle trough" but didn't proceed with filling it with water as it was -7C, and although I appreciate the salt water shouldn't freeze at that temp, the hose pipe and tap might have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I do like the way the unrusty surfaces are not damaged at all by the process, polished surfaces remain polished and if there is any paint that doesn't have rust under it that will also remain but the rust right up to the edge of the paint will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Little bit of an update... Pulled the back axle out of the trough this afternoon (Note that the snow-pole extension to the engine crane was carefully assessed before I used it and it worked very well. I wouldn't use it for more weight than an axle though!): then gave it a quick jet wash... It was surprising how much muck and slabs of rust just fell off: Now the interesting stuff... Although the process was obviously working, its difficult to gauge it because the water turned into a rust coloured soup. In the side-car video, I'm sure the bloke mentioned that the current dropped to 10A, for me, it never got about 4A... So I assumed it was not that effective but having cleaned it up, I might have been wrong. With little stuff in a bucket, you can move it around to make sure every surface "see's" the anode, with the axle, I periodically pulled the anode, cleaned it, and placed it in a different location. All of the fasteners (diff nuts, calliper bolts) came off easily so I assume the electrolysis cleaned all of the rust off the exposed threads. They certainly look a heck of a lot cleaner.. The silver surface on the diff pan is clean steel so it even took some of the good paint off.. I was sure the callipers were scrap before they went in the process, they have really cleaned up! so I'll strip them, check them out and pop them in the oven to make sure they are de-hydrogenised. Most of the brackets "looked" okay before they went in, the anti-roll bar brackets, the spring seats and the bump stops looked totally shot when they came out! Finally, once I'd cleaned up the rear A-Frame brackets, they looked like this: The challenge (and I think it is probably worth it) is to get the front axle in the bath... I might add some more salt to the solution first to increase its conductivity. I dare say I could try and get the stub axle assemblies off first but half the benefit would be getting the bolts that hold the swivel housings on, properly cleaned before trying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 That's got to places shot blasting would struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And its a whole lot less messy and more self contained (assuming you don't have an enormous cabinet to hand to do it in) I am definitely going to try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The SSOD used a dc welder as a power source which will have a higher voltage than a battery/charger and allow more current to flow. Increasing the number of bits of sacrificial scrap will also increase current flow, I also noted that it appeared to me when I used non cast items as sacrificial scrap the current was also higher. Also as you suggest more salt will help to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I wonder how easy it would be to get a scrap of sheet steel to line the inside of your box as a massive anode? You could then sit the axle on wooden blocks and have great line of sight and high current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 I wonder how easy it would be to get a scrap of sheet steel to line the inside of your box as a massive anode? You could then sit the axle on wooden blocks and have great line of sight and high current. Well spotted with the welder, that makes sense! I thought about using steel sheets but figured that there was a risk that the current may not be focussed enough to dislodge rust and debris if it has large areas for both cathode and anode, and the workpiece is in the middle. Thus I started with a couple of long pieces of scrap mild steel down one side (They were connected to the 3/4" square box sections you can see poking out of the soup), besides the brake disc, then swapped them to the other side. The axle was on wooden blocks. Various bits of scrap were connected using old jump leads. Next time, I'll spend more time attaching cables and jumpers to the axle and sub-assemblies to get better conductivity across the entire mass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Increasing the size of the anode will just demand more current from your current source, so if you have a really high power source like a battery or a welder you won't have a problem, it's only really if you are using a charger/psu as your power source that you may get an issue. Another method for increasing current flow is to place the anode closer to the workpiece(cathode). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcock Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I was thinking of trying this, my thought was to use some reinforcing mesh in the bottom with timber supports for the item and a 24v battery charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've for a couple of old batteries, I'll give them a go once the weather has died down. Wind a bit wild for crane work at the moment.. It's surprising how the current tails off as the anodes get coated, that may be the downfall of a mesh on the bottom as it will quickly get covered in muck.. Nothing ventured, nothing gained though - give it a crack. If you were in the area, I could even give you a couple of kilos of white powder as I've got some spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This process is great, cheap and easy too. The hardest bit is being patient with the first item you do as its tempting to keep checking it... I did an air filter housing from an Sd1: http://www.classicroverforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16625&start=135#p168888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I upped the ante on this job last night by dumping the battery charger and using a 19v HP Laptop charger as a power source... Wow! What a difference, the bucket was fizzing like a witches cauldron... Now I need to get the front axle into the trough and hook that baby up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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