xychix Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I want to replace the outriggers for the frond end of the springs on my SIII 109 (1980). Is it adviced to: - remove roof and sides first and thereafter lift the tub - remove roof sides and tub as one piece (or maybe just lift the whole bunch and leave it well above the chassis on a frame) other approaches welcome, same for instructions and hints on the wires / bolts that are often overlooked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 If you've got the manpower and/or equipment avaliable, then take the tub and roof as one - assuming it's a 3-dr. If you haven't then it's a lot easier to split them, you can renew seals then too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 If you've got the manpower and/or equipment avaliable, then take the tub and roof as one - assuming it's a 3-dr. If you haven't then it's a lot easier to split them, you can renew seals then too it's a 109 5 door with safari roof and steel roof rack. (doors already removed) I will split them then. Do all the work by myself. Have some wooden beams, loads of strong straps and a hi-lift at my disposal http://britpics.co.uk/LWBrst/ seems a good resource, just hoping my chassis is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 So, this is the front of rear spring hanger? Do you have to remove the body? I'm headed into this job myself, as soon as I can get my head around CAD in order to design the rigger. Looking at it on my pickup I don't need to remove the body, but the sw is very different. I must look at the SW chassis I have and try visualise the body on it. Any photos? G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 I'm working on the front piece of the rear spring outrigger (both sides) part: bearmach STC8298 At the moment got the roof and sides seperated from the rest and standing on 6 tiny blocks still on the tub... damn that thing is heavy... I also want to be able to weld on the top part and will do all other stuff I find on the way doing this. That means I might make the job a bit harder but hopefully I solve quite a few others on the go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 From memory, the 109 5-dr tub has tabs bolted to the top of it to hold the front of the tub, and in order to access the top to weld it properly as required by the MoT you need to really remove the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 And you'll find some more work to do with the body off anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 damn, it's so heavy together with the roofrack... I'll drive the car under a tree, chainhoist it off and drive away. Will leave the roof in the garden under a protective cover. It's to heavy to have it dangling over my had while I work on the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 yeah it's off, chainhoisted on a tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 It seems that I have a rail from the rear weel al the way to the front wheel on the side of the car that's 1 piece of steel. It seems welded to the piece that goes up in the front of the rearwheelarch. Is that default? or a mod done (likely when the 2 underseat tanks where placed. The alu strip you seen on the picture above it connected to it with some brackets. By de looks of it I might have to dismantle stuff al the way up to the firewall. or just cut this beam in 2 and weld it back on when I put it all back on.. Other option is to leave the U rail there but disconnect the floor from it and just try and cut the welded connection into the wheelarch and fabricate 2 holes and a plate so it can be bolted on lateron.. takes more time now but the rail on the outsite might also be a nice guidepoint for placing the outrigger on the right place.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 That's the Cill, that's normal. Take care of it, they're bloody expensive to replace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Will the cill come out with the tub or not? the cill (alu covers that can be seen on the photo) are 2 pieces, however they seem attached to a non standard piece of steel. Or is that also 'the cill' \ (sorry for these noob questions, not a native english speaker meaning I might not be able to correctly name some parts) in this video on 5:37 you can see the steel bar, in my series 109 that is welded to the piece that goed up in the rear wheel arch and on which panels are popped. on 6:33 I now see where his piece stops. will look there tomorrow, however I'm quite confident mine doesn't end there but is 1 piece (station wagon 109, safari roof ~1980) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Sorry, can't see what you're referring to. That's also a 3-door and you said yours was a 5-door, and the two tubs are quite different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Sorry, can't see what you're referring to. That's also a 3-door and you said yours was a 5-door, and the two tubs are quite different ah ok, didn't know that they where that different. Basically my alu cill's cana are 2 halves (a front and a rear) but the steel support they are attached to is 1 piece. 1 LONG piece that starts in the upper rear wheel arch and has panels popped to it and ends at the outrigger that supports the firewall. Suppose it all has to come off then. Will just continue unbolting / cutting bolts and at some point it should all come loose. Likely the front seatboxes are coming out with the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Right, yes, radically different. A 3-dr, the tub is basically a stretched SWB tub, few differences but essentially that's all it is. Short Cill under the door with the thing at the back that slips up the bottom and bolts in. Bolted along the back of the seatbox - 11 bolts iirc - tabs on the rear crossmember, has a bulkhead at the front etc etc. The 5-dr tub is very different. There's no bulkhead at the front - you can't, it's where the seats sit. You also have to provide a frame, a hinge post, and a shut line for 2 sets of doors. The Cill on a 5-dr starts off the same - it is a folded U section, has a bracket to bolt to the bottom of the bulkhead, then passes under the seatbox which it's bolted to in the same way. This then changes radically. The B post - the shut line for the front doors - is no longer part of the tub. On a 5-dr a steel post is welded to the Cill which goes up to roof level - I can see you found the bolts at the top when you removed the roof. The Cill then continues under the second row doors, all one piece, to provide the frame for them. This extends back under the odd shaped fill panel which has a line of rivets down it you can see from the outside. If you drill out those rivets - don't forget the 3 that are close together at the top - this panel will come away and expose the C post. This is more steel welded to the Cill at roughly 45 degrees leaning backwards. This also has a flat tab with two bolts going down through the tub floor on the inside. With the seats removed you'll see it, just below the seat catch. This whole frame removes as one, and usually they're rotted out in the C post where it joins the Cill. Those on my road-worthy 109 have been cut and patched and cut and welded soooo many times they're nowhere near the right shape now. I need to really do a body off rebuild of it and completely rebuild or replace them. Not cheap though. £200 per side, only going upwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 THANKS! that is the load of info i needed! ...This extends back under the odd shaped fill panel which has a line of rivets down it you can see from the outside. If you drill out those rivets - don't forget the 3 that are close together at the top - this panel will come away and expose the C post. This is more steel welded to the Cill at roughly 45 degrees leaning backwards. I would love to leave the side pannels attached to the Cill and remove it as 1 piece as I'm not planning on respraying the car for now. I have 1.5 days left before I have to close up my french Barn and go back to work in Holland, in that case all is paused till ~October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 If you'r planning to keep the vehicle a long time, I'd recommend removing sills to have them regalvanised, or at least give them a damned good clean up, remove any rust and prime with something highly rust resistant, paint, and give the interior of the B and C pillars a very thorough wax coating. As said, they're expensive to replace. The simpler sills on three door models were galvanised, but they get a lot of road spray and eventually start rusting. These more complex sills weren't galvanised on five door models, at least the late ones, because of the difficulty of painting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 that's good to know. Will look into that. my 1,5 days i'd left are just consumed getting my big new doors in the shed welded in and make them close & lock proper.... not that wise at all to start a landrover restauration in a shed that still being build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It seems that I have a rail from the rear weel al the way to the front wheel on the side of the car that's 1 piece of steel. It seems welded to the piece that goes up in the front of the rearwheelarch. Is that default? or a mod done (likely when the 2 underseat tanks where placed. The alu strip you seen on the picture above it connected to it with some brackets. By de looks of it I might have to dismantle stuff al the way up to the firewall. or just cut this beam in 2 and weld it back on when I put it all back on.. Other option is to leave the U rail there but disconnect the floor from it and just try and cut the welded connection into the wheelarch and fabricate 2 holes and a plate so it can be bolted on lateron.. takes more time now but the rail on the outsite might also be a nice guidepoint for placing the outrigger on the right place.. That is the body side frames, looks like this when not fitted the sloped part is the 'C' post behind rear door/tirangular cover panel, 'B' post in centre &undoor sill along the bottom, bolted & rivetted to body/chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hey Western, mine look a bit chunkier than that. I'm considering cutting it with an angle grinder just behind the B-post and weld that back up later on (or fabricate a few holes and a bracket to join the 2 halves. if I disconnect the front row of bolts in the rear passengers footwell I should be able to lift all behind the B-post out without other major hackin and slashin. reasons are: - that the front of this piece seems connected to the firewall with a impossible to reach thick bolt that looks rusty... - I want to remove the tub without drilling out rivets as I'm not planning to respray the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Cutting the sills will cause more work than it saves. The body cross member between the door pillars tends to rust badly, so removing the floors is going to be beneficial in exposing that cross member and allowing it to be repaired or replaced. The Defender sills are identical to 109 sills, and I'm pretty sure the cross member is too. The cross member can be bought from YRM if you need one. They might do the sills too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hey Snagger, thanks for the advice. Took me several attemps, bleedig fingers and some hard work with a nut-cracker (Not sure if that's the word, translated from Dutch) and a angle grinder to get to the B styles. Tub is off! happy with the chassis! seems only the front outriggers for rear leaf springs are really bad (thats why i started the job). Will take my time to do a good job and come up with a strong solution the will allow me to attack anything on the front row seats without having to remove the tub again. Litteraly cut a pile of work in 2 pieces cut near the wooden shoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 just pressure washed the rear and wanted to pop it back in the shed with nose first... forgot to bring my keys from Amsterdam (700 km's from here) To bad will work in the darker back of the shed for now and turn it around next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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