Aragorn Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I've been trying to iron out some details regarding installing this Audi V8 lump into the Defender. The engine, when fitted to the original Audi car uses a 240mm clutch, and this same clutch with a stronger pressure plate is also used in the RS4 which has a twin turbo V6 producing 325lbft at peak and over 380hp. I was originally planning on using a landrover friction plate, and the audi pressure plate, however it seems this isnt going to work very easily, as the release bearing diameters are quite far out, and the audi release bearing is much smaller. I'm having a custom flywheel made for the engine anyway, as my motor is from an Auto, and the custom fly is half the price of the manual flywheel from audi, so after speaking to the chap who said he can get the custom flywheel made up, he's said he can make the flywheel up, to accept the landrover clutch cover and friction disk. The plan would be to use a 242mm TDI clutch, however i'm trying to find out what kinda torque handling people have put thru a stock TDi clutch? The V8 produces around 295lbft, and clearly the 240mm clutch should be able to take this assuming the clamping force on the pressure plate is high enough as the standard audi part manages it, however i've read things about standard TDi clutches slipping with the 2.8L TGV motor, which only produces 277lb-ft... Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeriousIIa Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Standard TDI clutch and plate won't work. We've just fitted en 2,8 lump and it is slipping in all gears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hmm is this the standard TDi clutch, or the "HD" 130 version? How new is the clutch/flywheel? This isnt a good start... I presume it means the standard pressure plate just isnt strong enough. The HD kit also doesnt seem to use an uprated pressure plate, just an uprated friction plate, which might not be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 probably slipping because the master cylinder to pedal rod needs adjusting to prevent any preload of the hydraulics, the correct pedal setting info is within this forum, search for clutch pedal setting. a standard Defender clutch should happily cope with the R380's max torque loading of 380Nm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Hmm... This seems to be a bit of a grey area :/ I dont really want to spend the money having a flywheel made, if i then cant get a clutch to take the power, but at the same time if the audi 240mm clutch can take it then it would imply the landrover clutch should manage it too given enough pressure plate clamping force. Anyone got a 2.8 TGV thats happy on a HD landrover clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 You can have a paddle clutch made that will handle all the power you like. Nige(Hybrid from Hell) has one on his V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I have had the impression that paddle clutches tend to be like on/off switches, which doesnt seem ideal for offroad use or on road stuck in traffic. I've taken the flywheel off the TDI today and have been comparing it with the bellhousing on the audi lump and the TDI landrover clutch is going to be a pretty close fit as is. I've found a company (M&D Engineering) that seem to sell 250mm clutches for people installing TGV engines into landrovers, i've dropped them an email to get some details on it, as if i have enough room, i might just about be able to manage to fit that 250mm clutch into the Audi bellhousing, which would be just about ideal. Otherwise i'll have to go with the landrover 242mm setup and hope it grips enough, and if it doesnt, perhaps go along the lines of a paddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 How about a Puma clutch? They are presumably designed around the 265lbft of that engine, though early indications are that it isn't going to be the most reliable component of the vehicle in the long term... but its probably the best standard part you will find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 The big issue is the diameter, and the input shaft splines. V8's and TD5's both run clutches of 267mm, and the Audi bellhousing will be struggling to take a clutch much larger than the standard 240mm item. I've no idea how large the Puma clutch is, but i suspect it will be similar to the transit part, which is either 254 or 250mm, i also doubt it will have the same spline count/profile as the TDi gearbox. I really dont see why the TDi clutch cant take the power, if audi can manage to put 325lbft through a 240mm clutch plate with plenty to spare, and without resorting to paddles etc, then one would expect the landrover item SHOULD take the same, i can only presume the pressure plate simply doesnt have a high enough clamping force. I have found a tdi paddle on ebay for £260, which may be a last resort, the other option may be to get someone to manufacture a cover plate with a higher clamping force, and use it with the 130TDI friction disk. Can anyone with a paddle clutch comment on how they are to use offroad? I'll see what this company says about this 250mm clutch, and whether it will fit inside the audi bellhousing. I may be able to cut the housing back to give it some more room, but the crank sensor for the management system sits inside the bellhousing, and runs off a trigger on the flywheel itself, so unless there happens to be enough thickness in the flywheel to get the crank sensor and the adaptor plate, before the clutch surface, it may be very tight/impossible to use the 250mm item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hi I am using a 6 cylinder 4.2 tdi engine with 500Nm output, it came from M&D with the 10.5 inch clutch, it works fine for normal road work, but start spinning wheels in mud and the clutch starts to slip and burn, I am sure audi never envisioned that engine trying to spin wheels in deep mud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 My 2.8tgv on a 110 weighing around 2.6tons has a LR H/D clutch fitted. It will slip on a long uphill section as say 50mph if I accelerate. It happens when in 5th gear and with the overdrive engaged and 33' tyres. In other circumstances it works fine. If you can go with the M&D option, they have excellent experience of these problems and have developed a solution at least for the 2.8tgv. When my clutch does go I will fit the M&D version. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hi I am using a 6 cylinder 4.2 tdi engine with 500Nm output, it came from M&D with the 10.5 inch clutch, it works fine for normal road work, but start spinning wheels in mud and the clutch starts to slip and burn, I am sure audi never envisioned that engine trying to spin wheels in deep mud Thing is that whether your in mud or on the road the engine produces the same amount of torque, and its only engine torque that the clutch sees. If the clutch slips in mud, then it will slip just the same if you give it full throttle up a hill etc. Headhunter: Thanks, it does seem that even the Landrover HD unit isnt going to be good enough, just have to wait n see what M&D say, and if thier kit is not going to fit i'll have to look at a paddle, or having an uprated pressure plate manufactured. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 So are you planning on using a Rover gearbox then? Say goodbye to the gearbox..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm using an R380. Ashcroft have told me its rated to 380nm and will take a bit more, the engine produces something like 390nm peak Ashcroft have also said that the "L" box from a TD5 is a little stronger, having larger bearings and suchlike, however i've decided to use the TDi one for now, and if it dies then i'll get an "L" box and fit it with the TDi input shaft. There are many tuned TD5's around running over 400nm, without spitting their transmissions all over the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm using an lt77 with mine with no problems, just got to be careful not to tow in fifth gear, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe90 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Did you sort the clutch in the end ? Read with interest as I have a tuned Isuzu 3.1 (not quite you league) but it spins a std clutch LT77 box. Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Motor and Diesel did a 25% uprated diaphragm and matching non pre-damped AP clutch plate at one time ( I have one) , and reckon it could handle a 2.8 . Might be worth an ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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