Stroppy Cow Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 HI...I earlier this year aquired a 200tdi defender engine with turbo and manifolds plus various other bits missing...with the view to sourceing the parts and putting it into my series 3 109......after spending lots of time on ebay looking for defender tdi engine bits cheap,,or finding them at all im nearing the point off giveing up and looking for a complete disco tdi.... Then i thought is their anyway i can use the turbo from a disco 200tdi and manifold ????? is this doable??? also the pulleys and alternater brackets are they the same???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 you'll need the complete inlet/exhaust/turbo & fixings from a Discovery engine, might be easier to sell what you have & buy a complete Disco 200Tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I have a 300tdi inlet and turbocharger in the garage if your interested. They were heading ebaywards but i've not got round to it yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I have a 300tdi inlet and turbocharger in the garage if your interested. They were heading ebaywards but i've not got round to it yet... I would highly recommend fitting these 300 items - in a 109 it will make fitting the exhaust a real easy job to do. Ive done 4 conversions now - TDi's into Series, and on everyone Ive done it the hard way using the disco exhaust pipes. Ive seen it done with the 300 manifolds now, and it really is easy to do. Ive got 2 more conversions to do shortly, and Ive got one 300 turbo ready and waiting. The only thing that concerns me slightly is that you are using a defender engine and not a disco one. On that I cant help you with regard to however injector pumps and the like might react. I do know for a fact that the 300turbo runs well with the 200disco pump - Ive seen it in action...the defender i guess will be just as happy, but you'll have to ask an engine specialist on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroppy Cow Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 I have a 300tdi inlet and turbocharger in the garage if your interested. They were heading ebaywards but i've not got round to it yet... dunno what to do now......feel like selling and buying a disco engine....but then a german friend threw a spanner in the works and says his 109 just fitted with a 2.5na is goodo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 IIRC someone has fitted a 200tdi to a S2 or 3 without the turbo, just using it as a N/A engine with fairly good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cieranc Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Ahh yes, the 200 Di, apparently it's a good conversion for a series. Glencoyne Engineering, check them out. EDIT: http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/200di.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Surely the point is to ditch the horrible gutless NA engine and fit something that actually manages to pull the thing along the road? A TDi isnt the most sprightly of engines in the first place, and without its turbo, its going to be just as useless as a 2.5 N/A... Given the "fun" we had driving the disco down from scotland with a very badly running V8, i can only imagine how unbearable a 2.5Di would be to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroppy Cow Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Stuff it im buying a land cruiser ..No really i gets your drift the tdi would make it brilliant to use...and with carefull use of the right foot the gearbox etc will last a long time as i know a few people whove got them in their series and do countless miles abroad and never a problem...... Then again with a 2.5na driveing it from southampton to scotlands gona be a chore....but once their it would hopefully be not to bad potering aroond... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige90 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 A TDi isnt the most sprightly of engines in the first place, and without its turbo, its going to be just as useless as a 2.5 N/A... Probably worse as the compression ratio is set for a blown setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I dont know how much power the disco V8 was putting out on the way down from scotland, but i suspect judging by the speed it was managing, it must have been somewhere around 70-80hp. Fighting with it trying to keep at 60 on the motorway, and forming huge queues everywhere once off the motorway becuase it takes about a fortnight to pull itself up to the roads speedlimit just doesnt make for a pleasant drive at all. Maybe thats what driving an old Series is "all about" but personally, you have the opportunity to make it a much better car to drive, without losing its "character", and you should be making it as best you can! I think you know that though, hence buying the TDI in the first place... What other bits do you need bar the turbo and inlet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Probably worse as the compression ratio is set for a blown setup. Actually, a point well covered in the FAQ on Glencoynes page: DiFAQ 5. It won't work because.... A special section for the unbelievers - the people who have taken the time to explain to me (usually via Internet forums) why they know the 200Di conversion won't work, even though they haven't driven one."It's a turbo engine, so the compression ratio will be too low." The CR of the 200TDi is 19:1, compared with 21:1 for the old 2.5 non-turbo (12J), which is probably how this myth originated.  But the 19J turbodiesel also has a 21:1 CR.  The reason the TDi has a lower CR than the older engines is down to more efficient direct injection and a better combustion chamber shape.  The Ford Transit 2.5 Di engine, which has the same injection system and similar combustion chambers, also runs a 19:1 CR in non-turbo form. *BOOM* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm not suggesting it wont work. It just wont pull the skin off a rice pudding. Anyone who thinks 70hp worth of engine in a 2 tonne vehicle makes a pleasant drive must be mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I was only referring to the 'worse than an NA due to compression ratio' comment, hence my quote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 have you driven one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Probably worse as the compression ratio is set for a blown setup. Yep. Drive one you might be pleasantly surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 rusty: i've driven a 300tdi defender, which was what one might call "adequate", enough pace that you dont need to wring its neck, but could easily have done with a lot more. Take 40hp off that though and its a completely different story. I've also driven a MK5 transit with a 70ps 2.5Di which was awful, and required you to boot its ar*e in every gear to make it do anything, and a 109 is heavier and has 4wd to sap up some more of the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I cant believe anyone would seriously suggesting removing the turbo. It means removing all the advantages of the more modern TDI engine. Of course, it is direct injection as opposed to indirect injection, but it is about 20% loss in compression ratio compared to the old Landrover diesel, which is the most important parameter for efficiency. It is the easy way out of a conversion, but it is a desperate measure. If your worried about your gearbox, but do the conversion properly and wind the pump down a few turns and you have a good setup. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Or fit a stronger tranny when the chocolate one grenades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 My 88" has a TDi less intercooler set up. On the original 4-speed gearbox and transfer box. Originally I had series diffs. I now have Rangy diffs. The rangy diffs are of a lower ratio than the series which means the engine has to exert that little bit more torque to get things going than it did with the Series diffs, which is why she used to take off like the proverbial but is now slightly slower to take off. However, i can say that in nearly 2 years of using her, Ive never had a problem with my transmission. Ive never broke a halfshaft, I never chewed a tranny box, and my 4-speed is no worse than it was with the 19J in before. I love my 88, she runs so well, the TDi was the best thing i ever did to her, and confirmed my choice of engine for the 109. I fail to see why anyone would want to remove the turbo and all the good it does for little Series, i really do. I went and read the Glencoyne post again after it was posted. I looked at it and compared the amount of work I done....on 4 different motors now....and said no, sod it, thats too much effort for too little return - you might as well fit the sweet running 2286 petrol he refers too. Ive discovered now, that a 90 2.5TD exhaust system without the centre silencer fits the 88 very nicely, with little modification. I've also discovered just how easily the 300TDi exhaust manifold and turbo fit the 200 disco engine (couldnt vouce for a defender) and how much of a doddle it makes fitting the exhaust and air intake, compared to all the faffing about I had to do. Glencoynes reference to struggling to fir a disco rad, oiler cooler whatever I've not looked for a few days, is baseless. Been there, done it, its easy. You do not need to fit the disco rad. Ive been running happily with my standard series rad since the day i fitted it, and she's done a lot of very hard work towing, off-roading, and working on a farm. My oil cooler is from a vauxhall calibras auto gearbox, with hoses made specially, and it sits quite happily in front of my rad. I'll be fitting my intercooler in the spring, its going on the 'wrong' side, above the steering relay, that will up my torque and acceleration apparently...that should test my gearbox. BTW, the wifes a bit of a 'girl racer'...and she hasnt killed the box yet. To be honest, has anyone ever heard of, or killed a Series Gearbox with a TDi engine, and crucially, not been abusing it to do so? I'm interested, Ive never acctually met anyone who has and I'd like to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroppy Cow Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 My 88" has a TDi less intercooler set up. On the original 4-speed gearbox and transfer box. Originally I had series diffs. I now have Rangy diffs. The rangy diffs are of a lower ratio than the series which means the engine has to exert that little bit more torque to get things going than it did with the Series diffs, which is why she used to take off like the proverbial but is now slightly slower to take off. However, i can say that in nearly 2 years of using her, Ive never had a problem with my transmission. Ive never broke a halfshaft, I never chewed a tranny box, and my 4-speed is no worse than it was with the 19J in before. I love my 88, she runs so well, the TDi was the best thing i ever did to her, and confirmed my choice of engine for the 109. I fail to see why anyone would want to remove the turbo and all the good it does for little Series, i really do. I went and read the Glencoyne post again after it was posted. I looked at it and compared the amount of work I done....on 4 different motors now....and said no, sod it, thats too much effort for too little return - you might as well fit the sweet running 2286 petrol he refers too. Ive discovered now, that a 90 2.5TD exhaust system without the centre silencer fits the 88 very nicely, with little modification. I've also discovered just how easily the 300TDi exhaust manifold and turbo fit the 200 disco engine (couldnt vouce for a defender) and how much of a doddle it makes fitting the exhaust and air intake, compared to all the faffing about I had to do. Glencoynes reference to struggling to fir a disco rad, oiler cooler whatever I've not looked for a few days, is baseless. Been there, done it, its easy. You do not need to fit the disco rad. Ive been running happily with my standard series rad since the day i fitted it, and she's done a lot of very hard work towing, off-roading, and working on a farm. My oil cooler is from a vauxhall calibras auto gearbox, with hoses made specially, and it sits quite happily in front of my rad. I'll be fitting my intercooler in the spring, its going on the 'wrong' side, above the steering relay, that will up my torque and acceleration apparently...that should test my gearbox. BTW, the wifes a bit of a 'girl racer'...and she hasnt killed the box yet. To be honest, has anyone ever heard of, or killed a Series Gearbox with a TDi engine, and crucially, not been abusing it to do so? I'm interested, Ive never acctually met anyone who has and I'd like to. looks like its gona be the tdi then.......anyone live near stirling fancy giving me a helping hand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Killing gearboxes with the tdi was a speciality for me, also nearly an overdrive. Now to be honest i drove it like i stole it, raced hot hatches off the lights, did a couple of burnouts and so on so forth (very silly i know, i was only 23!), so basically they had seen a lot. Usually all the bearings become toast very quickly, syncros would be ineffective, with some broken gears in between. I destroyed 3 boxes before going to the lt77, with perm 4wd. The overdrive was also suffering so i sold it before it blew up. Its the torque that kills the boxes usally, not the bhp (Besides, side slipping the clutch at the lights) G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Its the torque that kills the boxes usally, not the bhp (Besides, side slipping the clutch at the lights) Which is why "giving it some" and actually using the revs is actaully easier on the transmission (assuming you dont take it to the extremes you highlight ) If you tootle around everywhere at 1900rpm sitting on maximum torque your giving the gearbox maximum punishment. Actually allowing the engine to rev out and using the gears properly will give the tranny an easier time of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmattley Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Fair point, but would driving at 3000rpm or so (not mxa torque) down pints of diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 What Daan said - removing the turbo is a pointless cop-out for those who can't be bothered to do a proper conversion. It's not rocket science. A Series box will live happily behind a TDi, mine lived happily behind a 3.9 V8 for years and it wasn't a very healthy box to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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