LR goes eVehicle... perspective or marketing gimmick ??

[SenseMaker2013]

found this today....

Landrover Defender as eMobile... it was presented during the Automobile show in Genf (Genova) this year (7th-17th March)

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The so called Defender EV (Electro Vehicle/Version) at maximum speed of 70 mph (= 112 kmph) is equipped with Lithium-Ion rechargable batteries (weight: 410 kg, 300v, 27kWh) which run an eMotor of 95 horse powers of 330 Newton metre (which is available from the beginning you kick the pedal).

e-Cockpit... (for big size click the thumbnail images pls), Speedometre, eBlock...

(Source: Drive Review @ Autocar)

The batteries shall guarantee 8 hours driving (slow tempo) off-road.... will be recharged in 4 hours (fast charger) and the downhill breaking energy is flowing back for recharging the battery, too. It even shall be possible to drive through 80 centre metre deep waters (see the video, bottom).

Did anyone drive it as LR has built 7 test vehicles ? - What do you think about the future of "off-road cars" as e-Version with "0 emission" ? - Would you buy it ? - And what are you wiling to pay ? - It might still give off-road-feeling (without skinky Diesel or engine noise)...

So it looks on the street and off-road-terrain.... maximum distance with one charge unit: 80 km on regular streets

[simonr]

Based on my experience:

I think it could be pretty cool! Mine has no gear change - but will still do 0 to 60mph in about 10 sec, top speed of 93mph. With a gear box added - you could well get very impressive 0-60 and higher top speed too.

The silence is kind of spooky while you're driving it! You can hear the whistle from the motor controller and the whine of the transfer box gears - but apart from that, not a lot. When you're travelling at speed, you realise how much of the total in an ordinary car is tyre noise. By the time your doing 60-70, there's not much difference in noise compared to a liquid fueled car.

Although electric vehicles are much maligned by the Jeremy Clarksons of this world - I think, for many people they are a viable alternative. Personally, I now think a plug-in hybrid is a better option with an under-sized diesel engine to give you the range and mix in electric when you need to accelerate. Run entirely electrically until the battery gets below say 30% capacity. If you could still get a 50 mile range, you could do maybe 90% of your total mileage without using diesel at all. Most people drive less than 20miles per day.

I'm not convinced a Defender is the ideal starting vehicle, despite it's intrinsic coolness. It wants to be as light weight, aerodynamic and with as low roll resistance as possible to start with - so maybe a stripped down new RRS would be better. Land Rovers are a good bet because they are easy to modify and in standard form can carry the weight of the batteries.

Si

[SenseMaker2013]

Based on my experience:... Mine has no gear change

@simonr: Tks for sharing.... I was really surprised to meet here one who has already made the decision. OK, not based on LR *laugh*, but generally we have to become more "eco" to save our planet, no doubt and no way around referring the limited ressources of oil (and herefore seeing all the bloody crime, wars and violence in the middle east) its a really silly and stupid solution to believe, that petrol/gas driven vehicles have a future.

Having fun with an off-road vehicle like LR is one thing, but higher priority has responsability for the environment and our future generations.

Maybe you can complete your interesting report and arguments (+/-) with the aspect of "economy". How much you paid for your eCar ? - What are the running costs ? - And how about recycling after your eCar did its job ?

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In my understanding as I know only little bit abt this thematic we should have a re-chargable solution on board of a car as we cannot offer everywhere such eTanking stations like Bosch is testing for inner city areas.

I wonder, why Landrover does not test solar panels on the roof, which might charge the car during parking front the supermarket, restaurant or during 8 hours working time. Something like this:

I know some concepts of companies, who switched completely to eCars for their whole fleet.... so the parking places front the company building look like this... (in the pic it has a capacity of 60kW and is produced by company SOLON)

Even workers can park their private cars, and charge their vehicle over the day. The loading station (I dont think, thats the correct word) is only maintained with Solar panels. In some of such progressive companies the workers already use eScooters they can charge there. During work the eMotorBike is fully recharged. Optically they look like a normal scooter, same elegant design like those of company Govecs...

Some tests with Solar tents during longer parking times look little bit "OUTER SPACE"...

I suppose the efficiency of the Solar cells is still the "bottle neck" of this concept, isnt ? How many square metres would be needed to charge within 4 hours (that would be really a good space of time).

As you said, a range of round about 100 kilometers with one charge unit is enough for most car drivers.... I think, only for long distance drivers like sales staff who must visit clients and driver per year maybe 60,000km need a hybrid version as they drive daily around 200 km.

For inner city solutions I even would say: We should think more about eBikes.... as we already have a tendency with Rent-a-Bike solutions in some cities that its the best vehicle for short distance (5-10 km) using it just 20-30 minutes, and then leave it at one of the stations...

In Hamburg, hanseatic City we already have many of rent-a-bike stations.... its very low cost:

Every of thse red bikes (its not yet ebikes) has GPS connection, so you can see on a website (or via app on a mobile phone) already which station has bikes available free you can reserve/book and pay via credit card. - I think, such stations easily can setup solar recharging solutions to offer eBikes, too. it could help to avoid the traffic collaps of inner city areas. It could even look beautiful as an eye catcher...

(a solution by Japanese company Kyocera which creates up to 1.14 kWh per unit/station and even offers the charing over night being connected with the regular electricity net via AC-DC Converter).

The (Snail Mail) Post in Switzerland is using eBikes for their staff to deliver the letters to the homes...

[CwazyWabbit]

Simon designed and built his eCar himself using scrap yard parts amongst other things. The batteries were all from a scrap yard, so I think when he does declare it end of life it will have very little environmental impact as all he had done was delay stuff on it's way to the scrap yard

[simonr]

"I wonder, why Landrover does not test solar panels on the roof, which might charge the car during parking front the supermarket, restaurant or during 8 hours working time. Something like this:"

The battery pack in my Freelander has a 10kwh capacity. The Land Rover above, I would guess at about 40-50kwh. Based on the average amount of sunshine per day over a year, to fully charge this in 8 hours, you would need a panel with a 20kw peak capacity.

This installation is 4kw

So, you would need 5 of these to be able to charge your pack between April & September. If you wanted to charge it all year round, you would need something more like this:

An array of 220 panels! It's going to be a bit tricky to fit this number of panels on the roof of your Land Rover.

The reason nobody bothers is with the area of roof, you would recover less than 1% of the energy you need per day, which would save you a few pence. The cost of the installation is likely to be a few thousand pounds - which would take hundreds of years to pay for itself!

As you later suggest, static locations, things like Factory roofs are a better option!

Most of the small installations in places like bus shelters, I suspect are more for show than to generate useful power!

Si

[CwazyWabbit]

Also how robust are the solar panels?

[SenseMaker2013]

Also how robust are the solar panels?

oh.. thats no more a problem. Since many years in yachting sports are used solar panels.... you can glue on the deck and walk on them...

Yachts always have the problem to lack of enough energy, especially for transatlantic crossing (which can take up to 2-3 weeks depending on the sportivness of the hul and rigg).... so today with all that electronic equipment like GPS, radar, weather reports, electronic log books written in lapotps such yachts have a highly consumption of electric power (no more navigation with Sextant)...

There are many producers and products in the market to guarantee such robustness which is needed in rough seas, probably more rough than off-road.... http://www.solarlink.de/solarmodulegb.htm

[SenseMaker2013]

Most of the small installations in places like bus shelters, I suspect are more for show than to generate useful power!

tks giving orientation... hm.... Giving a "green touch"... show making everywhere. Remembers me the political situation these days in Germany as we soon will have new elections of the government and parliament in September.

Today was a press conference by German government and science minister and mininster for consumer protection and nutrition.... they proclaimed a new political programme called "eco economies" (or "Bio based economy") for establishing new industries with products using "bio sources" to replace the dependency from oil, e.g. using farming products to produce plastic or clothes made of plants or milk.

These clothes are produced of milk, the element is Kasein the textile fibres are made of... its not a totally new technology, but former processes had been too water intensive. Nowadys the modern methods allow to treat such products as "eco" and "environmental friendly". More details on the website of Qmilk and biologist Anke Domaske who is the designer.

Bio products same are used in automotive industries as "bio plastic" (an interesting archive about this term offers the Magazine BioPlastics here), e.g. for seats, covers of engines etc. ... its not totally new as since many years we have regenerative energy sources etc. ... but mainly in Germany over last decades we had the focus on "organic farming" and fighting "air/water pollution", "waste treatment concepts" and "healthy food". So it goes a step forward now to introduce eco products into industrial processes by new funds for bio sciences.

The press release of today about the new "Eco Economy programme" and "bio based sciences" is this:

http://www.bmelv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/2013/215-Biooekonomie-verstaendlich_erklaert.html

(Rec.: Yet I have not found the English version, regularly all news from the German ministery are available in English, too. If you are interested take Google Translation or have a look in couple of days, maybe then the translation is ready.)

If one should be interested the German ministry started a specific website/information platform about this "eco economy", Its here: http://bit.ly/13wcWvn

[tacr2man]

Sorry to be such a dampner on a lot of these so called alternatives , but they all have problems that are glossed over so often , eg making clothes from milk , the amount of methane ( a green house gas) given off by cows is a major problem , and is very inefficient . Electric vehicles , the batteries are very power hungry to manufacture , many of the component parts are very toxic, they are limited life , ie number of charge cycles, and are very expensive to replace , what is happening is moving energy costs higher and higher so only the wealthy will be able to afford travel . so from a lot of peoples perspective , it doesnt matter whether its paying £10 a litre for dino fuels or £5k for a car battery pack , its beyond their reach . Look at particulate traps on trucks , stop all the nasties in the big city , then get outer suburbs and go thru regeneration , chuck all out on the poor devils that live there . JMHO

[Dan110]

Sorry to be such a dampner on a lot of these so called alternatives , but they all have problems that are glossed over so often , eg making clothes from milk , the amount of methane ( a green house gas) given off by cows is a major problem , and is very inefficient . Electric vehicles , the batteries are very power hungry to manufacture , many of the component parts are very toxic, they are limited life , ie number of charge cycles, and are very expensive to replace , what is happening is moving energy costs higher and higher so only the wealthy will be able to afford travel . so from a lot of peoples perspective , it doesnt matter whether its paying £10 a litre for dino fuels or £5k for a car battery pack , its beyond their reach . Look at particulate traps on trucks , stop all the nasties in the big city , then get outer suburbs and go thru regeneration , chuck all out on the poor devils that live there . JMHO

I know the alternatives aren't perfect yet but tbh, we need to be looking at them because if we can be sure of anything, it's that the oil will run out.

Every new technical advance starts off imperfect and expensive but IMO we need the early adopters to get the money and impetus rolling so that the tech can get cheaper, better and more accessible. There may be no viable replacement for internal combustion yet but I don't think knocking the efforts to improve the alternatives will get us anywhere.

[SenseMaker2013]

Sorry to be such a dampner on a lot of these so called alternatives , but they all have problems that are glossed over so often , eg making clothes from milk , the amount of methane ( a green house gas) given off by cows is a major problem , and is very inefficient .

I forgot to mention, that this is not fresh milk... its the milk which is sent back from the supermarkets not being bought within the time limit given by the stamp... so this milk would be thrown away anyhow... :-) The clothes designed and made of this milk textile fibre are the result of a milk recycling process. :-)

Generally your critics are right by the basic idea behind.... all "eco processes" must be proofen by its efficiency... but you might know, that since many, many years, I think, its since 15 years, we have a so called normative "eco balance certification" (better known as LCA) where exactly the whole supply chain, R&D (Research & development), natural ressources, recycling and life time of products are analysed deeply and in details...

You even must go so fare to analyse the sales structures, logistics and internal office and qualification structures.... e.g. what kind of paper are using the employees, what kind of eco screens, printer colours etc. ... it does not make sense if the "simple workers" use eco friendly processes, and the CEO is flying around with an expensive LearJet just to satisfy his ego or having expensive incentives with his management board (such kind) :-)

The ISO 14040 is an effective instrument of proofen environmental management... but unluckily still not used intensively by companies.

My personal opinion: regularly all products should be labeled nowadays which can be centralized and documented online being available for everybody. Very easily such certificates could be listed on a website within a database and showing all details of the Eco Balance. And the consumer/buyer could understand what level of eco management is behind. A friend of mine studied environment engineering. He finished his degree in 1996/1997 that time this ISO norms had been part of our dicussions. So seriously I ask: What happened in last 16-17 years seeing the world being destroyed by climate change.

We are still fare, fare away from a real environment protection. I suppose there is no right or wrong. Our own life is too short, that we can wait for the perfect solution. We only can try by our own life style to overtake responsability and ask seriously the important questions what might be a good compromise. E.g. I dont have a car since 2002.... I dont need it. For my profession in medias I need now again a vehicle for European wide media prouctoins.... so I have to think seriously about different alternatives, progress of sciences, new technologies.... and how to finance it. :-)

No doubt... still a long march to go. "Sustainability" yet is an empty word in many branches. America is working on own standards (who wonders). No yet globalized one world. And so long we create mad solutions to feed our hunger for consumption, there is only little hope...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo4poSqvRHA

(payload of one lift: 80 tons)

To understand the real dimensions... this clip makes it clear:

(PS: To be understood right way... such gigantic mashines as seen in the video are very fascinating. No doubt, its engineering on high level. In that sense we even could say: I am fascinated by perfect long distance weapons.... moral and ethics are what humans need to get their "minds and emotions" under control. In 21st century we need the culture of self-restriction and self limitation and no more self realisiation.)

[simonr]

Sorry to be such a dampner

To be honest, I started with pretty much the same point of view. Building an EV almost entirely out of scrap was an experiment - part to see if it was possible and part to see what it could cost! Granted I had a few lucky finds with parts - but with what I've learned along the way, I could do the same without the same finds.

The most expensive part of my build was the Freelander - but I recouped half the cost selling the engine & box. All up, inc Freelander it cost about £1000. I did have to design & build a lot of the electrickery - but I published all of it open source to help others do the same.

It was inspired by someone on the radio saying that we could easily be at £30 per litre for diesel within 20 years. OK, that may not be true and may not happen - but I thought I'd find out if I could keep something on the road when I can no longer afford diesel. Do the experimentation while it's easy - and reap the reward when it's not.

By then, there will be enough nice cars that are scrap because nobody can afford to drive them - just asking to be converted. At least I can generate my own electricity, whereas synthesizing diesel is more tricky!

I'm not a tree hugger - hell, I'd be driving a Bicycle, not a Defender if I were.

In 20 years when your bicycle is passed by a cool looking dude in a 'Classic' DIY Electric Defender - that'll be me!

[snailracer]

Where have you published the info on your build si? I've been interested in doing similar for a while. For some reason I really fancy an electric series one!

[SenseMaker2013]

In 20 years when your bicycle is passed by a cool looking dude in a 'Classic' DIY Electric Defender - that'll be me!

Applaus... :-)

Where have you published the info on your build si? I've been interested in doing similar for a while. For some reason I really fancy an electric series one!

If you google little bit and with respect to simonr, here is the link:

http://www.4x4offroads.com/electric-land-rover-freelander.html

.... and as you can read at the end, its published on the website: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/

[o_teunico]

I´m doing now 80km per day, and building an hybrid diesel electric van has been one of the ideas that have been in my head for cutting my fuel bills. Some calculations showed that it will be cheaper to run on diesel, but i will add old cooking oil time to time, as we made some years ago in our beloved Santana 88".

[simonr]

Some calculations showed that it will be cheaper to run on diesel.

Either your Electricity is very expensive - or your Diesel is very cheap!

I Gallon of Diesel is roughly equivalent to 30kwh energy. My electricity costs £0.086p per kwh - so the equivalent of £2.58 per gallon. It's actually better than that because the overall efficiency of the EV is higher.

A gallon of diesel costs 4.54 x £1.41 = £6.40

So, from a cost point of view I get a £6.40 / £2.54 x 100 = 252% miles per £ If you include the efficiency saving, you get between 300 & 350% economy saving compared to the same vehicle running on diesel.

So, you could get the cost equivalent of a 60-80mpg Defender!

Also, I calculated the emissions as 89g/km including generation and transmission losses. This is actually very poor for an EV as it goes - but it's still lower than most vehicles on the road in the UK.

Si

[Scooby Jim]

Just my 2p's worth.

I do not believe in Electric cars you plug into the mains, simply because they still need fossil fuels to create the electricity, the knock on effect is higher electricity bills for us all, which as we are nearly at total capacity for electricity supply is this wise also?? Then there is the infrastructure to "service" these cars, yet more cost, the plug in points, the length of time needed to charge them....... list is endless.
Hybrid cars also do not imho work. A small poorly engineered engine lugging around a heavy battery set, that wrecks the planet when being created, when used and when "disposed" of.
The current car tax system should not leave new cars exempt, or have £30 tax, there should be a minimum like our older cars, and then the gas guzzlers added ontop. This money recouped into finding real alternatives.

My main issues are as I live in the Semi rural area of dark South Wales, to get anywhere I have to use my car, as public transport is not viable. So assuming I want to go to Cardiff a 120mile round trip, an electric car would be useless, as with a G-Wizz if it rains or gets dark (happens a LOT in Wales) then range is reduced yet further. Also that I can do many short trips, or a few longer ones, especially in winter, which would mean I would have to use a multitude of vehicles if purely electric.

My preferred option has been around for decades, but slightly altered. The Intercity 125 train is a Diesel Electric Train, so has Electric Motors to move the train, but a Diesel motor attached to a flywheel and dynamo to create electricity. Same as a lot of the massive Tonka type dump trucks, and cranes, excavators etc etc etc.

Why can't they create an electric car that uses a small diesel engine to create the electricity, that can recoup electricity from braking, which wouldn't need a large engine to keep the flywheel and dynamo ticking over. Then you could use these handy filling stations dotted around the country, meaning you could drive happily drive from Lands End to John O'Groats without stopping for longer than 20mins.

Then once these diesel electric cars have become the norm, then replace the power plant with a Hydrogen Fuel Cell. That way the technology is already out there, and all your doing is changing the way you produce electricity, and the only by-product is water, drinkable water. The filling stations instead of selling DERV or Petrol, would switch to Hydrogen same as they sell Liquid Petroleum Gas (Propane/Butane). There would be no need to add massive infrastructure, or to wait for 9 days for a charge, no need to replace batteries, cars could be a LOT lighter and efficient, and be rolled out like the withdrawal of 4* was.


I REALLY think these electric cars, and Hybrids are a total waste of time and effort, as they are not solving the problem but patching it.


I saw a guy from Honda talking ages ago, saying that a Hydrogen Fuel Cell, was so efficient, that one filling of the tank would produce enough electricity for the average persons weekly commute, AND power their home with all the lights and heating etc etc for that same week. So allowing us to nearly go Off-Grid.

I don't understand the hostility to Hydrogen, yes it does require a LOT of electricity to convert Water into its gasses, but with the possible worth of the produce made would easily be recouped from a Hydro-Electric plant dedicated to Hydrogen production, or even a Nuclear power station dedicated to electricity for hydrogen. With all the Hydrogen fuel cell cars also limiting the total consumption of the electricity households use, then I'm confident the capacity could EASILY be found.
And the second comment about a Hindenburg style apocalypse from an accident, we currently carry a highly volatile and flammable liquid around bolted in plastic tanks under our cars, and some even have bottles of high pressure liquid gas, yet no apocalypse.

[tacr2man]

SJ have to agree , battery electric is a a dead end for many uses (short commutes aside) due to energy density limit. Nuclear is the only way to getting the future requirement of energy , and if you believe"man-made global warming" (I dont) the only answer . With fusion being the ultimate , enabling the hydrogen production to be relatively cheap due to the massive amounts of energy available. From my involvement the hybrid buses work quite well (the full electric drive with genset engine) that harvest braking etc., but feedback regarding the battery pack costs is a bit disappointing .

[GW8IZR]

As long as we continue to live the way we do - heck I commute to Oslo weekly, then our energy needs will struggle to keep up.

As with previous tens of generations our lifestyles will adapt and when fossil fuel becomes more scarce and too costly we will adapt and travel less.

Those of us living in rural areas will change our habits - EV technology will improve. Private home generation will become practical... the list goes on, its simply evolution.

My Defender will almost certainly outlast its usefulness as a means of transport, not as a result of wear and tear or rust but fuel cost. It would be nice to think it could live on with electric traction but I'd more likely start with a small light van.

BTW recently saw a cracking 120Km/h touring bike with huge duration, exchangeable cell packs.... the guy charges it at home and work and commutes 100km daily. He reckons its lovely to ride with super power and immense torque........ who'd a thought it.

[SenseMaker2013]

Either your Electricity is very expensive - or your Diesel is very cheap!

@Simon: I think o_teunico meant the calculation overall costs.

If you calculate the investment of buying a car, e.g. might already exist one you want slaughter and then setup newly as eCar or Hybrid, inclusive working time, buying the tools (already searching for the right solutions might become very time intensive), buying the equipment so fare you dont have an own workshop/garage etc.. the time for studying e.g. reading in this forum or other literature till the installation itself, tests and regularly maintenance...

A radical proof of economical efficiency would only be given by taking the "overall costs" I think, not being reduced to the comparison of pure energy costs. :-)

[SenseMaker2013]

As long as we continue to live the way we do - heck I commute to Oslo weekly, then our energy needs will struggle to keep up. As with previous tens of generations our lifestyles will adapt and when fossil fuel becomes more scarce and too costly we will adapt and travel less.

right... with the increasing numbers of humans on this planet over next 10-15 years and the increasing living standard (imagine alone that all Chinese and Indian folks could travel as wealthy Western countries do) would produce huge problems, not to say heavy "troubles".

We see it already with the increasing flights and therefore companies like Airbus is producing mega airplanes like the A380 or seeing it with the Cruising ship industries. See the consumption of world biggest cruise ships like Celebrity of Solistic Class (produced in 2012 with 126,000 GT)... next is coming Quantum of the Seas (ready in 2014 with with 167,000 GT).

Already today, tourism and travelling takes so fare I remember the latest statistics 15-18% of all environmental pollution as single branch. Mobility is a huge trap for human mankind.

No doubt, we have to reduce our hunger for having holidays here and there (watching POlar Ice bears or doing Safari trips to be close to elephants and lions is a real nonsense under ecological aspects, better watching a DVD). Its no more the time to say: I can afford it for me and my family, so lets do it. We have to learn to self-restrict our egoistic habit otherwise even the best environmental protection solutions of sustainabiltiy cannot compensate the increasing numbers of populations...

Its really scaring the prognosis to think about the energy consumption, waste production, water pollution.

[Cynic-al]

I have a few problems with electric cars. Not so much with the cost, as that will come down with production volumes, the drives are very good and can out perform combustion engines in performance and efficiency but the energy storage is lacking. They take too long to charge and don't have enough range. I can see it as a second car where your just dropping the kids off at school or going to work and back but I doubt many families could live with one as their only transport. The free charging points are a crazy idea for a device that is being marketed as the 'zero emission' **at point of use** saviour of the environment and the zero road tax and congestion (not smog!) charge is, lets face it, unsustainable. We don't have enough electricity generating capacity for the future of the country without the cars, perfectly good coal and gas stations are being shut down and decommissioned because they have reached their carbon hours which the government voluntarily agreed to but there is no plan in place to replace them.

I hate hybrids purely as they are largely understood as being green, they are no more globally polluting than any other car, infact you can get traditional cars that are less harmful, they are designed to reduce smog in the city by the people who live in the suburbs and commute by car. That's it!

I think compressed air is interesting purely because it can be quickly refilled at a petrol station (I think some Indian taxis run this?), although the efficiency is questionable and there is a safety and weight aspect or standardized battery packs that can be changed quickly at the petrol station, although were probably not there with the batteries yet.

I did read an interesting article about someone making engines powered by something like liquid nitrogen and antifreeze, sounded quite interesting.

Of course the best solution is less people, but I get branded if I get on my soap box on that subject.

[CwazyWabbit]

........

Of course the best solution is less people, but I get branded if I get on my soap box on that subject.

Not by me you won't The human plague is really the problem..... we need to manage our population

[SenseMaker2013]

I think compressed air is interesting purely because it can be quickly refilled at a petrol station (I think some Indian taxis run this?), although the efficiency is questionable and there is a safety and weight aspect or standardized battery packs that can be changed quickly at the petrol station, although were probably not there with the batteries yet.

good comment.... yes. Air motors are the best solution at all in my understanding as the "charging" only takes 3 minutes (one filling costs round about 2 Us dollars for a 300 km range). Its done seriously by Motor Development International (MDI) which is settled in Luxembourg - http://www.mdi.lu/english/. Yet the MiniCat Air car has some troubles as it was not introduced in the US market by Tata because of range and heating difficulties - http://bit.ly/151QYF1.

MiniCat Air Car...

The prize is OK.... beginning from 8000 Bugs (6117 Euros) for it...

Tata Motor, India's biggest company generally and leading car/truck manufacturer in India, invested heavily into MDI 5-6 years ago and bought uniquely a production licence for the Indian market.... so I suppose what you mean with "Indian Taxis" are test vehicles by Tata Motors and MDI collaboration... its awesome cool. NO doubt.

The Tata Airpod...

So it sounds on Indian Television...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h5p3B99GLg

As yet the regular petrol stations dont offer such "compressed air tanking" it can be an interims solution, that you have on board a very small air compressor with a small gasoline tank.... while you are parking, the generator fills the tanks with compressed air. MDI is offering a hybrid version with a range of 600 km. Better than nothing I would say.

MDI already has city transporters in production...

(In this video one can see that the tanks are very safe made of carbon.)

They MDI's city hoppers look nice and surprisingly are big.

The whole concept of MDI is leightweight.... the air engine only has 24 kg

In Israel a company Phinergy is working on a different concept with Aluminium Air batteries. This car needs water and has a range of 1,000 km. :-) Citroen is testing the Phinergy solution.

Peugeot Citroen is planning a series with air cars....

[simonr]

The problem with air powered cars is this:

P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2

What it means is that as you pressurise gas, it heats up. In order to expand, it needs to take in the same amount of energy (heat) in from somewhere.

This means that wherever you are pressurising the air, you have to get rid of a large amount of heat. OK, maybe not a problem if you re-cycle it for neighborhood heating projects etc rather than waste it. When you are running your car, you have to recover the same amount of energy from the environment. Somewhere hot, like India, this is quite practical. In the UK at the moment (while it's 32C outside) again not a problem. In the winter however, it really is a problem. Your storage vessel, valves & engine will freeze! the expansion of the gas as the pressure drops will be less - so your efficiency falls.

On the plus side - you get Air Conditioning for free .

Strangely enough I have worked on exactly this problem. I designed a beautiful triple expansion rotary air engine which gave much better thermal efficiency than most at high pressure / low volume. Unfortunately, the overall efficiency just didn't stack up on average over a year with the average UK temperature range and the project was abandoned.

It is still on the cards to build one as an experiment though

Si