19J rebuild project

[monkie]

Here is a link to thread on the LRO forum for my 19J rebuild if anyone is interested:

http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=98553

[reb78]

Great thread Phil!

Could i suggest you copy the text and image links to this thread on here as the invision forum software doesn't ruin pictures like the boards lro use? If you can still click edit on your lro posts, you can highlight the text and copy it, then paste it on here. 

[monkie]

Thanks Richard, I will. I think it wasn't software that ruined my pictures though - it is my lack of camera skills!

[monkie]

Last year I wanted to return my 1988 110 back to original(ish) condition in terms of engine, body colour, wheels+Tyres etc. Last year my 110 hard top was painted in Limestone, Disco 300Tdi and had black modular rims fitted. I know the 300 Tdi is a great engine and better design than the 19J, however I don't use my 110 for work and don't work it hard, so I'm not bothered about the 300Tdi in terms of better mpg, reliability etc. I want my 110 to be close to original as it was in 1988 for bumbling around in.

This back to the 1980's project is still ongoing, to date I have fitted the rebuilt 19J and painted all 3 doors and the bonnet back to Shire Blue. I have also sand blasted some steel rims and painted them in a Land Rover White from the late 1980s (can't remember the exact white now) and got 2 of the 5 rims fitted with Avon Rangemasters. Its a rolling project and I'm in no rush as I just do bits here and there as I find the time.

Last April, I got off ebay a running 19J engine with a good radiator and all of the ancillary parts needed such as header tank, PAS reservoir and all the pipes and hoses for under £200. It was a late 19J fitted to a 90 from 1991. The owner was doing the opposite to me! He told me that it started and ran okay with smoke clearing after a minute from a cold start, pulled well but speed dropped down up long hills. It had an oil leak from the rear seal he discovered when fitting a new clutch.

I wasn't going to just fit a 25 year old engine with 130,000 miles on the clock straight into my 110, particularly given the reputation the 19J has: heavy breathing, loose swirl chambers, cracked pistons, cracked heads, cracked blocks etc.

I stripped it down to see what £200 worth of 25 year old 19J TD engine looks like........

Hear is the beast hanging off my engine hoist in my rather untidy garage, starter motor removed and put away for safe keeping. I had sprayed it in engine degreaser and then jet washed the muck off it so I could see what I was dealing with and make life a bit easier:

Removed the clutch followed by the flywheel (the fly wheel is one heavy piece, you don't want it dropped on your toes ) You can now see the rear crank seal. It doesn't look like it is leaking to me.

Flywheel cover off, now I can see an oil leak!

Here's the back of the flywheel cover in a mess with sealant

The piece from the engine stand was fixed to the block using 4 M10 high tensile bolts fitted to the holes in the block where the flywheel cover was bolted on

Right, now its off the hoist and on the engine stand, proper work can start to see what condition it is really in.

For washing parts - I don't have a proper parts washer. I know there are lots of opinions on this, here's what I do: I don't use diesel because it is too messy and sticks to the parts. I don't use petrol either because of the fumes and massive fire hazzard. I used white spirit because it was relatively cheap from toolstation, did the job and isn't going to explode into flames if I accidentally make a spark the other side of the garage! Some cheapo tooth brushes and a paint roller tray filled with white spirit worked a treat:

The hose from the turbo to manifold and the line from high pressure side of turbo to the boost diaphragm in the fuel injection pump were removed from the turbo:

Ancillary belts slackened and PAS pump removed:

Oil feed to turbo removed

...and from the block

Turbo oil return pipe removed

Turbo and manifolds removed

Here's all the stuff removed on my work bench

Next job was to pull the head off to get the fisrt glimpse inside the top end to reveal the first clues to the true condition of this engine.

I took off the thermostat housing to see a load of messy sealant

The injectors were taken out next. I don't have any test equipment, so these were just be exchanged for rebuilt ones from Paddocks. Note the copper washers are still on the injectors. Make sure you get them out. Also there are some smaller steel washers that sit under the nozzel. Don't forget about these later on!

Rocker taken out

Card made to keep push rods in the correct order for refitting

Head bolts removed - but don't forget to take off the oil feed at the back of the head before trying to remove the head from the block!

I refitted some of the bolts for the manifold to use as levering points because the head was stuck to the gasket. I used a bolt and the block to lever the head off, not a screwdriver between the head and block!

Bingo - the head is off. Because the pre Tdi diesel heads are iron not aluminium, they are very heavy. Make sure you have a good grip and can lift it safely on your own, better still get a mate to help and then go and have a drink to celebrate.

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by monkie
Photobucket fix

[monkie]

I didn't go and celebrate at this point because I had some damage to inspect now the head was off:

Here is one of the pistons. Looks okay? Look closer and you can see it is cracked across the crown

You can't really see well on these pics, but the others also had hairline cracks in the "V" shape in the crown. Piston 4 also looked like the surface was begining to give up under the heat of combustion.

Piston number 1 needed no expert advice to tell it was well knackered! At first I thought that something had hit it, but there was no other damage to the head or the bores. I think it is starting to melt from bad combustion caused by a faulty injector - anyone have any other thoughts on that?

I took the swirl chambers (combustion chambers, hot spots, hot plugs... lots of names) out of the head and then took a look for any cracks. Every single cylinder had cracked between the valves where the metal is thinnest, some were hard to see as they were hairline cracks, but they were cracks none the less.

Number 1 has also a bad crack from the swirl chamber to valve seat. This head was scrapped

Now to take the timing case off the front of the block. First the viscous fan, water pump and alternator were removed. Then I had to deal with the crank pulley and bolt. Top tip here. Don't do what I did below - I damaged the pulley as you can see

Get this set off ebay and use the proper tools. It is much easier and you won't damage anything:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-En ... Sw8w1X4RAA

Before the damper is removed, you can see the marks in it for TDC, and here is proof that number 1 is indeed at TDC

With the right tools I removed the pulley from the damper with ease:

Next job is to lock the crank to allow you to undo the damper bolt. This is on very tight. Lots of methods of doing this with the engine installed in the vehicle, but with it on an engine stand this is the best way: Get your self a proper locking tool (It will also be used to hold the crank when doing the bolt back up later), piece of scaffold tube to rest on the floor to hold the crank and stop the engine tipping over on the stand while you grunt and swear undoing the bolt. It will give if you use a big breaker bar with a extension piece on to get the leverage

Before the cover will come off, don't forget the cover below:

Timing case cover off, belt and tensioner discarded

 

Pullies off

Injection pump position marked up before you undo the three mounting nuts (these marks were already there)

Undo bolts securing the pump and remove

Next, the cam followers were removed by undoing the securing bolt (discard them and get new bolts and washers)

The follower bodies pull out:

I used needle nose pliars to pull the followers out

Here they all are removed and kept in order. I put them in sandwich bags to keep them together in order. Sod's law came in to force and I dropped the last follower into the block

Okay, with the timing case off and the cam followers out, it is almost ready to take the camshaft out:

First the vacuum pump drive and oil pump drive scew gear has got to be removed as these are driven by the camshaft: You can see from this picture that the oil filter housing has been removed

I still couldn't remove the vacuum pump drive. I couldn't quite understand why I couldn't until I removed the gasket for the oil filter housing and found a grub screw holding it in place!

Now it could be lifted out

 

The sump was then removed by taking out all of the bolts and breaking the sealant with a scraper

With the sump off, the engine was turned 180 degrees which was a lot easier to do than I thought now that a lot of weight had been stripped from the engine:

The oil pump was removed and the screw gear came out. The camshaft could then be taken out (I actually think this pic is of it going back in, but you get the idea). Before it was removed, the endfloat was checked against the thrust plate. It was a similar process to the crankshaft as below

Now to check for crankshaft end float - that is the side to side movement of the crank which is controlled by the thrust washer, if it is excessive, you can get oversize washers to take up the wear and bring the endfloat back in to tollerance. It is an indicator of wear so it is important to do and note down what it is for comparison against the figures given in the workshop manual. You can do it by pushing the crank as far as it will go one way, then use feeler gauges as below to measure the gap between the crank and thrust washer:

For accuracy, I actually took the measurements using a dial guage by pushing the crank all the way in, zeroing the gauge and then measuring how far I could push the crank forward again:

The crank was scorred and needed a regrind, the main and big end bearing shells were also worn. So the bearing caps were undone, crank removed and sent to an engineering shop for a ginde to 10 thou under size.

With the engine now stripped right down, the block was wheeled outside and given a scrub down with hot soapy water followed by a jet wash. I also washed out the the water jackets in the cooling passages. The amount of rubbish in there was shocking!

All traces of old gasket were scraped off, an airline used to dry everything followed by a spray with WD40 to stop the parts rusting:

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by monkie
Photobucket fix

[monkie]

Checking for wear. Here are the readings I took, the tollerance from the manual are in brackets:

Camshaft endfloat (0.1-0.2mm), actual = 0.55
Crankshaft endfloat (0.05-0.15mm) actual = 0.25
Main bearing journal (63.487-63.500mm), actual from 1 to 5, 63.52, 63.48, 63.47, 63.48, 63.49
Crank pin journal (58.725-58.744mm), actual from 1 to 4, 58.70, 58.69, 58.69, 58.70
Con rod end float (0.15-0.356mm), actual from 1 to 4, 0.279, 0.152, 0.152, 0.229

The only good readings there are the con rod end float, everything else is out. The crank will be fixed by the regrind and new oversize shells fitted and an oversize thrust washer fitted, the camshaft was fixed by a new thrust washer.

I used a bore gauge with a dial indicator to measure the bores for wear and shape. To measure the bores for wear, several reading are taken and compared to check for overal wear, out of round (caused by the sideways thrust of the piston and taper (more wear in the middle than the top and bottom causing a barrel shaped bore). Any wear here is sorted out by a rebore and oversize pistons and rings fitted:

The standard size bore should be 90.47mm. 0.127mm ovality is allowed, 0.254mm taper is allowed. My bores were good and just needed a light deglaze.The highest wear figure was 0.07mm for ovality with 0.07mm taper and 90.55mm maximum bore size. I was happy with this and proceeded to lightly hone to deglaze the bores and get a nice cross hatch pattern for the new rings to bed in.

The gasket surfaces were also cleaned up by using a square piece of wood and then 400 grit abrasive paper to remove any traces of gasket and muck. I then painted the block using red oxide while I waited to the new parts to arrive and the crank to come back from the engineering shop.

The parts arrived and the crank came back from the engineering shop. £160 to take all journals back to 10 thou undersize. The results were great because the scorring looked awful. Here is a pic of a worn bearing in one of the big ends:

Here's the new piston and ring assembly about to be assembled to the con rod

plenty of oil on the gudgeon pin

Cir clip back in place with the new assembly on a con rod

Here's all 4 piston/con rod assemblies done with the crank back from the workshop

 

Oil jet to cool the pistons fitted with new bolt and washers

Oil jets put back in place with a new oversize main bearing shell in place also ready for the crank to go back in

The bearings were well oiled and the crank placed back in the block

The camshaft was also well oiled and put back in followed by the timing case. You can see what a difference the fresh paint makes:

Before I went any further, I turned my attention to the injection pump. Remember the owner said that speed dropped off as he went up hills? This could be down to a few things, the first being that a 19J in good condition working well isn't that powerful at just 85 bhp and 203 Nm torque, but it could be a dodgy boost diaphragm in the injection pump. A pipe connects the high pressure side of the turbo to the fuel injection pump. As boost pressure builds, it acts on a diaphragm which pushes a pin in the injection pump increasing the fueling in proportion to the extra air available from the turbo. If this diaphragm is split, also sorts of nonsense can happen including poor performance up hills, pressurisation of the fuel tank, air in fuel causing poor starting and even a surge in engine speed as diesel flows from the pump to the turbo. For the sake of £20 you can fix all this stuff easily on a poorly 19J:

The boost diaphragm isn't a difficult job to do, while the pump is off, it is even easier and clearer to show you.

You don't want muck in the pump, so clean off the pump using a cleaning spray such as brake cleaner - don't allow anything such as dirt or brake cleaner to enter the pump

Now it is clean, you can cut the securing wire and undo the two bolts holding on the diaphragm cover.

With the cover off, recover the spring and take out the diaphragm.

The diaphragm can be torn, split or just worn away. Replace it using this part:
http://www.delphipartsstore.co.uk/fuel- ... ragm_3.htm

Putting all the other parts back to build up the engine is litterally as easy as reversal of removal, just taking care with the new parts and using the correct torque figures from the manual rather than just guessing.

I will show the timing belt part though for clarity if anyone is doing this job with the engine on a stand like me or in the vehicle. I used the locking pins that came with that timing set and pullers I got off ebay for £20. I have to say the job is a lot easier with the head off and the engine on a stand rather than in the Land Rover.

The fuel injection pump was put back on first paying attention to the marks made relative to the case and pump body. The sprokets were put back on the crank, cam and injection pump, then a new belt tensioner was fitted.

Number 1 piston was put to TDC

The pump was locked at the correct position using the timing tool

Timing marks on the sprokets lined up and the belt put on and tensioned

I then put the cover back on along with the new water pump - its really starting to take shape now:

When the engine was off the stand and the flywheel put back on, I put the timing tool into the timing hole on the flywheel housing to show you what it looks like when you lock the crank at TDC using this tool

When the job was complete the 300Tdi had to come out and I have to admit that I did have a moment of "what are you thinking Phil!" But there was no turning back now after all that work and I needed to sell the Tdi to pay for the cost of the rebuild!

Tdi out, a few alterations made interms of radiator mounts and putting the 19J engine mount used on the Tdi back onto the 19J, then I was ready to put it in

Right, so that was complete in July 2016. If fired up and ran really well which was very satisfying and a releif. I took it easy for the first 500 miles then changed the oil. So far I have done about 2,000 miles since then with no trouble at all. No oil in the air filter, no heavy breathing and it starts really well even on frosty mornings with about 10 seconds of glow plug heat.

There is of course a noticable drop in power compared to the Tdi and also a rise in fuel consumption. But I am now a step forward to getting back to the 1980s with my 1988 110 and I am really pleased with the result and hopefully the engine will be good for two more decades if not longer with good regular servicing and sympathetic driving.

The original head was scrapped, I got a replacment off ebay for £30. Had it skimmed, ground the valves in and fitted it. All other parts were replaced such as fuel lift pump, water pump, timing belts, ancillary belts, gasket sets, filters etc. Keeping in mind the engine cost £200, I think I spent about £400 on parts including the engineering work and new piston sets, but got £400 for the Tdi when I sold it, so I have a rebuilt 19J for £200 out of pocket and really enjoyed doing the rebuild learning as I went.

I hope these pictures show that it isn't a too hard job to do at home provided you have the correct tools and take your time. I'm happy to try and answer any questions except for "why did you sell the Tdi for a 19J" - can't really answer that one other than I like the old 19J and if I was sensible and concerned about power and economy I would sell the 110 and get a transit van: That ain't happening

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by monkie
Photobucket fix

[kevh]

Tidy work Phil, methodical and precise. Good to see 19j going back in as opposed to out, I am guilty of removing these in favour of TDI's, eventually all scrapped and nothing left original.

Keep up the good work, Kev

[monkie]

Thanks Kev. I know that it makes sense in many ways to swap for a Tdi, but I do feel sorry when I see discarded 2.5 NAs and TDs ripped out and dumped. The Tdi conversion I did years ago made it more drivable but it never looked at home under the bonnet of my 1988 110 and I wanted to go back to a true 1980s vehicle. I love the factory look I now have and that I have a rebuilt late 19J.

I've got your old injection pump off your 19J in bits at the minute with new seals on order. I will do a thread on taking that to bits as well. Hopefully I can remember where everything went!

 

[Bowie69]

Really nice thread there, thanks for posting!

I expect it is a little quieter in the cabin now?

[monkie]

Thank you. Actually that is a good point, it was something that when planning this work I didn't consider - it is quite a bit quieter in the cab now particularly noticable from a cold start with much less clatter going on. The other thing that was noticable but I think this will down to the rebuild and having good glowplugs, after 10 seconds of heat on a frosty morning it starts up just as quick as the Tdi did (I appreciate a Tdi doesn't need 10 seconds of heat though). When I used to have an old 19J, it took quite a bit of persausion to fire up on cold mornings, even with new Beru glowplugs.

[reb78]

You know. I liked my 19J. It performed pretty well really and wasnt quite the night and day difference to the tdi's that many say. It would sit at 80 on the motorway and worked with the vehicle fine. I think Phil's making me feel nostalgic now!

[monkie]

19 minutes ago, reb78 said:

You know. I liked my 19J. It performed pretty well really and wasnt quite the night and day difference to the tdi's that many say. It would sit at 80 on the motorway and worked with the vehicle fine. I think Phil's making me feel nostalgic now!

I think I still have the turbo as a spare from your old 19J Richard. If I remember your story correctly, I think you said that your 19J got you to where you picked up your 200Tdi from and then home again while it was bleeding to death, is that right?

On occasions I've had my 110 at 80 in my Tdi days, two things happen. (1) It doesn't feel entirly smooth or happy through out the whole vehicle, not just the engine. (2) Was the speedo just telling porkies? Either way, it made me slow down!

[honitonhobbit]

Nice re-build. Enjoyed that. I'm a bit of a 19J fan - driven a fair few in 127's towing 2 tonnes on the back and they always did the job. You're not far from me mind, so I'll keep an eye out

[Snagger]

It had its problems, but the 19J is considerably quieter and smoother than a Tdi.

[honitonhobbit]

It also has that ability to just keep on going - somehow

[reb78]

16 hours ago, monkie said:

I think I still have the turbo as a spare from your old 19J Richard. If I remember your story correctly, I think you said that your 19J got you to where you picked up your 200Tdi from and then home again while it was bleeding to death, is that right?

On occasions I've had my 110 at 80 in my Tdi days, two things happen. (1) It doesn't feel entirly smooth or happy through out the whole vehicle, not just the engine. (2) Was the speedo just telling porkies? Either way, it made me slow down!

Yep. Thats exactly right Phil. The old engine dragged itself to the midlands pulling a sheep trailer which carried the current tdi back home for the transplant. I stopped off at the services on the way home and had to clean the puddle of oil under the air filter before i left as it was breathing so badly and had to rig up something to catch any further oil. I sold a lot of the useable parts and donated the old block to Turners so it could be reconditioned and used again.

[monkie]

It's nice to see that I might not be quite as lonely as I thought I was in the 19J fan club!

My understanding is that the later 19Js from about 1988 up to the introduction of the Tdi's in the early 1990s were modified to cope with some of the problems that were highlighted by the earlier engines failing after relatively low milages. That's why I went for a 19J build date as late as I could find for this project. I would imagine that there can't be many early examples made before Land Rover's modifications left now?

In fact, isn't a TDI block exactly the same as the late 19J's?

[deep]

A great read, thanks.  My ex-military 110 actually has a relatively uncommon 18J, which has much in common with the 19J.  When the pulley driven vacuum pump died (I re-machined it but couldn't find a diaphragm!), I bought a 19J with a suspected blown head gasket, just for the pump.  I don't have the massive generator which precluded fitting that type of pump on the 18J originally.  The donor motor sits at the back of my shed and I tentatively plan to strip it and see if it is worth a rebuild, not to replace my 18J but so I have a spare on hand if it ever dies.  That makes this thread of particular interest, much appreciated.

[monkie]

That's interesting, I did a quick search for 18J and there isn't much information out there on them. On wikipedia, the 11J, 12J, 13J, 14J and 15J are mentioned, The most sensible suggestion I could find is that it is a modified version for the military ready for 24volt systems fitted and the belt driven vacuum pump you mention. I wonder if anyone on the military forum has information on it?

[Les Henson]

I replaced the 2.25D engine in my last S3 with the TD engine. The power and reliability was noticeably better. However, this engine is renowned for cracking pistons and I replaced them twice on mine.

 

 

Les

[Snagger]

Likewise, Les.  I think the CR was too high.  12Js have 23:1, Tdi 19:1.  I think 19J has 21:1, but whatever it has, it's too much.  The crowns needed to be thicker, too.

 

Monkie, no, the Tdi block is not the same, but it was the evelutionary step immediately before the 200Tdi, so the similarities are strong.  They share the same crank and cam shafts, flywheel, starter, and in the case of the Defender Tdi version, timing case and sprockets.

[reb78]

So if Phil wanted to drop the compression ratio in order to increase engine life, would it be possible to fit a double or thicker head gasket? I seem to recall volvo did this on some engines in the late 80s early 90s to decrease the CR because it had some benefits for switching to running them on unleaded petrol. 

[vulcan bomber]

Yes or open out the swirl pots in the head. Or even remove some material from the pistons.

 

A big help would be to retain the 300s intercooler, just to lower charge temps to keep everything else cool.

[monkie]

I've had all these thoughts going round my head, but its keeping it original that is important to me now for this. I like having the factory look, it looked messed about with when the tdi was fitted.

If something goes wrong, I'll just have to deal with it. But, it will be service regularly, driven sympathetically and I don't tow heavy loads up hills, so it should have a relatively easy low stress life.

So far the only thing that is not quite 100% but is managable is the governor in the injection pump as on the odd occasion the idle speed is unstable and it wants to surge until you blip the throttle then it settles down again.. I have adjusted the two settings for idle speed as suggested by Patpending a while ago which helped greatly, but I have a pump (kindly supplied by Kevh) that I have stripped down and plan to rebuild and send off for calibrating. I'll probably fit it when I do the timing belt next.

[Snagger]

A friend suggested to me years ago that an intercooler would help reduce cracking, but I'm really not convinced.  The pressure would be retained, but the charge density would be increased (the whole point of intercoolers).  So, you'd be cramming more air in and then compressing it.  I think that would not only effectively increase the pressure in the compression stroke, but temperature too.

A thick gasket would help.  I wouldn't remove any material from the pistons as they're already too thin, though I understand exactly the logic behind the idea.  Perhaps the easiest thing would be to dial back the maximum boost from the turbo?  Not an ideal solution to lose performance like that, but losing a few psi might be all it needs.