Who sells methanol?

[GBMUD]

Specifically in Wiltshire. Failing that, what sort of company should I be looking for in the Yellow pages, anyone know? I fancy having a go at making my own bio-diesel over Christmas.

Chris

[Les Henson]

Yeah sure - bluddy Wino!

Les

[rtbarton]

Look under "Chemical Maunfacturers & Suppliers" in Yellow Pages

[headhunter]

Hayman Limited in Witham Essex, near Chelmsford.

They buy in bulk Ethanol from BP and turn it into Gin, Vodka etc.

They also repackage it into various sizes from 1000litres down.

Website www.hayman.co.uk

John

[GBMUD]

It is methanol I need, similar but different.

Thanks Roger, mostly cleaning chemical firms but a couple of leads there...

I was hoping to be able to buy some locally but it seems that I will have to go to Western-Super-Mare to buy any for a reasonable price - £25+VAT for a 20l container. I was rather hoping for a smaller (5l?) container. I found it here but at those prices I may as well stick with mineral diesel! There is some on ebay at £20 for 5l when the post is accounted for. Looks like WSM is my best bet, anyone want to buy some surplus methanol?

Chris

[simonr]

It is methanol I need, similar but different.

Thanks Roger, mostly cleaning chemical firms but a couple of leads there...

I was hoping to be able to buy some locally but it seems that I will have to go to Western-Super-Mare to buy any for a reasonable price - £25+VAT for a 20l container. I was rather hoping for a smaller (5l?) container. I found it here but at those prices I may as well stick with mineral diesel! There is some on ebay at £20 for 5l when the post is accounted for. Looks like WSM is my best bet, anyone want to buy some surplus methanol?

Chris

Me...Me...Me Please!!!!

I was thinking about it this week too!

Do you have a source for the caustic soda? Guess you don't need that much so a hardware store is probabl good enough.

Si

[GBMUD]

I reckon caustic will be the easy bit.

Chris

[TheRecklessEngineer]

It it's only a few liters, I can probably sell you some. How much do you want?

[Paul Wightman]

ebay

[GBMUD]

It it's only a few liters, I can probably sell you some. How much do you want?

Do you have a shipper who will deliver? Most of them are a little reluctant to transport flammable liquids... Or are you local-ish to Wiltshire/Sussex?

Chris

[Les Henson]

I'll buy some off of you Chris, or chip in initially if you prefer.

I have 75-litres of industrial meths if anyone needs any?

Les.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

I'll have some meths off you Les if ever I am passing. Always need some for the Trangia and the Fondue set (German wife!!). I asked about caustic soda on Difflock recently since the missus wanted a go at soap making (surprisingly similar to biodiesel production!). Everyone said local hardware store and sure enough mine had a wide range in stock. I bought a kg pack for about £3 but this was the most expensive they had.

Let us know how all you would be manufacturers get on.

PS did I read somewhere that the chancellor was going to no longer require registration for biofuel producers? That can't be right can it?

[headhunter]

I'll buy some off of you Chris, or chip in initially if you prefer.

I have 75-litres of industrial meths if anyone needs any?

Les.

Les

I need some denatured alcohol (industrial meths?)for my Origo stove.

5-10 Litres.

No hurry so plenty of time to sort out the logistics.

John

[rtbarton]

You'll get your caustic soda from the chemical suppliers too. IIRC people who do this reckon its worth a bit more to use potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda)

Also have a look here Bio diesel They use turps instead of the other chemicals.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Also have a look here Bio diesel They use turps instead of the other chemicals.

Please please for the sake of your engine DO NOT FOLLOW BIOPOWER! You will break something.

Proper biodiesel: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

And here: http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/

Useful forum: http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

There is a lot of very informative info out there on the web on how to use various renewable fuels in a car engine. There is an equal amount of c*ap advice and 'snake oil' solutions out there that will see the destruction of your engine and earn biodiesel a bad name.

Ok, I'm off my soap box...rant over.

As for methanol, I'm in Southampton, so can't be too far away. Where abouts are you? I make very little bio these days as I am running waste veggy neat instead. How much methanol do you want? 15 litres should make about 70 litres of fuel.

Edit....P.S. Methanol is not Meths. Meths contains some methanol, but is 85% ethanol.

[rtbarton]

Please please for the sake of your engine DO NOT FOLLOW BIOPOWER! You will break something.

I was a bit sceptical myself - if it was that easy why would everyone else make it the more complicated way. What exactly is the problem with the Biopower method?

A while ago Top Gear did an item on running on chip oil, the guy just mixed some turps & veg oil, left it a while and the car ran perfectly - as it probably would have done on neat veg oil! I made a bit up and compared how neat oil burnt with the treated oil and I couldn't detect any difference.

How do you prepare your neat waste veg oil before using it?

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Being a TDi, it will run on the stuff neat...BUT you need to start it and get it hot on diesel first.

Other landy engines need to be fed hot veggy to save the injection pump.

In a TDi turps doesnt thin the oil sufficiently in the injectors when cold (it actually seperates into large droplets of veggy and small droplets of turps...try a spray pattern test with veggy and turps!) The veggy doesn't burn sufficiently in the cylinder, will then condense on the cylinder wall, work its way under the piston rings (causing them to stick) and then finally will start to polymerise the sump oil, and will then start to furr up the oilways resulting in reduced oil flow around the engine (and the inevitable failures). More of a problem for vehicles that are only used for short journeys.

Using turps+veggy in a pre-TDi landy engine quite simply doesn't lubricate the injection pump sufficiently. The rotor head will then seize up which will then shear the input shaft. However, being IDI it wont suffer from the problems above...if it lasts that long.

[pugwash]

welli can supply the chip shop oil for pretty minimal cost as i get through a fair bit each week- i don't know how much exactly but it's enough to filla few tanks every week i would have thought.

[Troll Hunter]

Before any wino goes blind - most of us are already deranged - let's be clear about the various alcohols that are being discussed here.

Methanol is methyl alcohol, which is highly poisonous. Amongst other effects, it does make you blind, but it also kills a large number of people each year.

Ethanol is ethyl alcohol, which is what we all like to drink, and only sends us temporarily blind and insane if we drink too much. This is produced by fermentation of sugar or starch, or by chemical means, starting from crude oil, and is what is in beer, cider, wine, and Gin, Vodka, etc. The non-matured spirits are frequently made from "petro-chemical" ethanol, with necessary flavorings and diluted with water. Ready to drink immediately!!!

Meths, or methylated spirit, is methyl alcohol with a colouring and smelly additive to prevent people trying to drink it.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol based, but rendered non-potable by the addition of smelly additives and methanol, so that it can be sold in UK without being liable to alcohol tax, as for Gin, etc.

For Material Safety Data Sheets for methyl alcohol, caustic soda and caustic potash follow the links below. Please note that if you are using methanol or ethanol, the vapours in air are toxic - yes, you can get pi**ed by inhaling them - and VERY explosive. Also, the liquid should not be allowed in contact with Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) or Potassium Hydroxide ( caustic potash). These are all VERY DANGEROUS CHEMICALS.

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.html

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_hydroxide.html

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PO/potassium_hydroxide.html

Having been a right kill-joy, I'm now looking forward to reading your posts on your successes, or otherwise, in making and using bio-diesel.

MikeRowen

[Lara]

Anglo American Oil Company Ltd

3 Holly Close

Sandford, Wareham, Dorset BH20 7QE

United Kingdom

Tel 01929 551557

Very good guys for all sorts of special race fuel.

I buy my methanol from them when racing in the UK.

Lara.

[rtbarton]

Being a TDi, it will run on the stuff neat...BUT you need to start it and get it hot on diesel first.

Other landy engines need to be fed hot veggy to save the injection pump.

In a TDi turps doesnt thin the oil sufficiently in the injectors when cold (it actually seperates into large droplets of veggy and small droplets of turps...try a spray pattern test with veggy and turps!) The veggy doesn't burn sufficiently in the cylinder, will then condense on the cylinder wall, work its way under the piston rings (causing them to stick) and then finally will start to polymerise the sump oil, and will then start to furr up the oilways resulting in reduced oil flow around the engine (and the inevitable failures). More of a problem for vehicles that are only used for short journeys.

Using turps+veggy in a pre-TDi landy engine quite simply doesn't lubricate the injection pump sufficiently. The rotor head will then seize up which will then shear the input shaft. However, being IDI it wont suffer from the problems above...if it lasts that long.

So you just filter the lumps out the used veggie oil then? What about the water?

I thought the process with turps was a bit more involved than just mixing and diluting.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

So you just filter the lumps out the used veggie oil then? What about the water?

More or less...

I leave it to settle for about a week...all the water, and any fats solid at room temperature drop to the bottom. I then pour the good oil out of the top, through a few filters and into the car. Takes about 1/2 hour to fill the tank. You can test the oil for water by sticking a sample in a pan and heating. Any pops/spitting means there is water still present.

I thought the process with turps was a bit more involved than just mixing and diluting.

Thats what bio-power would have you believe

[GBMUD]

So meths is pure methanol and dye and not ethanol with some methanol and a blue die? Interesting.

Slight change of subject; what about bio-ethanol as sold in some petrol stations? I guess that there is a clue as to it's content in the name but what would I have to do to a car (Sandbag has a Rover 414i but same applies to a V8 I guess) to make it run on the stuff? Is it timed differently? Will ethanol rot the hoses? Can I run a mix safely/succesfully?

Safety data sheets are good Mike, thanks.

Thanks for the tip Lara, not so very far from me.

Chris

[geoffbeaumont]

Slight change of subject; what about bio-ethanol as sold in some petrol stations? I guess that there is a clue as to it's content in the name but what would I have to do to a car (Sandbag has a Rover 414i but same applies to a V8 I guess) to make it run on the stuff? Is it timed differently? Will ethanol rot the hoses? Can I run a mix safely/succesfully?

I think, but may be well off the mark, that 'bio-ethanol' as sold at pumps in this country is actually only 5% ethanol with the other 95% being mineral petroleum spirit (ie. regular planet destroying petrol).

Nope - looks like I was being a bit unfair:

Morrisons Bio-Ethanol - 85% ethanol, 15% petrol.

According to British Sugar any UK petrol car should be fine on up to 10% ethanol (so not the stuff in the Morrisons press release above) - do you get different ratios at different pumps?

[GBMUD]

I might go fill a jerry can at Morrisons then and see where it gets me... Nearest one I know selling bio-ethanol is Weston. I asked them about it and, predictably, they knew nothing; other than the only cars to fill up on it were police cars.

Chris